AMA with Energy Control : HarmReduction | Torhoo darknet markets Torhoo!

2 points

3 years ago

Good afternoon everyone!

We are very proud of the success of this edition of the AMA. We know that many questions were left unanswered, but we want to tell you that we will try to answer all of them in the future.

Thank you very much to all of you.

/u/CaptainAmanita

1 points

3 years ago*

With samples being sent out to your Lab, is there any outside LEO intervention or influence in regards to the samples collected?

Meaning, do you collect forensic evidence on the outsides and insides of the samples/packages your organization receives? More specifically, do you supply LEO organizations with that forensic information in regards to the samples being sent? or is that protected under certain statutes and laws. Obviously this question tip-toes the line on whether or not you can answer it, but any answer is better than no answer.

Thank you for your organization. It is very useful and helps many people around the world be as safe as they can, to those that care about it, as much as possible. Truly an amazing service and you all have my thanks. Have a great AMA and a wonderful holiday season to all! Thank you for taking the time out of your busy days for an AMA to try and build community Dread relations back-up. We all appreciate your services which help us make the smarter decisions. Thank you to the entire team!

Kind Regards,
CaptainAmanita

/u/EC-Staff 📢

3 points

3 years ago

Hi /u/CaptainAmanita

We work in an anonymous and confidential manner, therefore we don't collect forensic evidence nor personal data, except an email so we can send the results, and we don't share it with anybody, including LEO.

Until now, we have no notice of any sample being seized or user being investigated for using our service.

However, in order to minimise any trouble with shipments, we require that users send us just the right amount and no more.

Thanks for your question and comment. This helps us to keep working hard ;)

/u/CaptainAmanita

1 points

3 years ago

Thank you for the informative answer!

I'm sure your answer will boost confidence in your Lab from the Dread community. I'm sure it will incentivize more samples to be sent your way for testing with the knowledge that everything is kept confidential and anonymous. Your team literally save lives with knowledge and harm reduction, so thank you for being an important and valued service for our community. I appreciate you all a lot and wish you all the best!

Thank you once again for the response, your services, and the extra little tip when sending in samples to make sure it gets to your lab as well! Take notes people!

Kind Regards,
CaptainAmanita

/u/nftsandmres

1 points

3 years ago

Are fentanyl and its analogs as prevalent now as they were? The benzo community is hurting from recent dirty presses in my area.

/u/EC-Staff 📢

2 points

3 years ago

This is our data from samples in which we found fentanyl presence in any concentration.

2015 21 samples
2016 112 samples
2017 61 samples
2018 37 samples
2019 26 samples
2020 18 samples
2021 18 samples

To fully answer your question, we need more time to extract the data from our database. We'll answer ASAP.

Thanks for your question.

/u/plkqcs

1 points

3 years ago

Thank you. I appreciate your work

/u/plkqcs

1 points

3 years ago

I would like to know what readouts you can provide for different testing requests. Most services provide specific mg and mc numbers only for certain substances identified as in the request and the rest usually by proportional measures, ie. 1 to 4, or 1 to 200. Only the second can tell us whether the fentanyl in a press or powder is a trace or dangerous amount, and in some cases proportional readouts can't tell if the fentanyl is at a deadly dose unless the dosage of another active substance is the sample is known for comparison. So any exampes of what actual test readouts would be very helpful. Thank you

/u/EC-Staff 📢

2 points

3 years ago

If we recieve a sample in powder form, the result will be given as the percentage % of each active substance in the sample. If the substance is adulterated, for example with caffeine, the percentage of the adulteration will also be given.

If we receive a pill or a blotter, we will give the exact dosage, in mg or mcg(μg). Same goes with liquid samples mg/ml or μg/ml.

We will update our sample report in our wiki(https://torhoo.cc/go.php?u=TDJRdlJXNWxjbWQ1UTI5dWRISnZiQT09#/wiki?id=b106ae95) so you can check how we give the results.

Thank you for your question.

/u/Pygmalion

1 points

3 years ago*

How accurately can you tell apart TMA-X and Mescaline and 2C-X since they are structurally very similar?

I am asking because customers purchasing those products from us keep having issues with false test results with reaction tests and simple analytical tools.

/u/EC-Staff 📢

1 points

3 years ago

Hello,

Colorimetric analysis techniques are extremely imprecise and can vary due to many factors.

The techniques we use to differentiate them are very sensitive and able to differentiate some substances from others due to their molecular mass (as in the case of gas-mass spectrometry(GC/MS)).
Using GC/MS we can differenciate these substances using retention time and fragmentation patterns.

Thanks you for your question.

/u/donkeysquadreborn

1 points

3 years ago

how much you work with police? what data u give to police?

/u/EC-Staff 📢

1 points

3 years ago

Hello,

Nothing. We don't collaborate with them.

Thanks you for your question.

/u/donkeysquadreborn

1 points

3 years ago

so u just take in drugs and police never check in on u or anything?

/u/EC-Staff 📢

1 points

3 years ago

Hello!

Until now, we have no notice of any sample being seized or user being investigated for using our service.

Also, we work in an anonymous and confidential manner, therefore we don't collect forensic evidence nor personal data, except an email so we can send the results, and we don't share it with anybody, including police.

Thanks!

/u/donkeysquadreborn

1 points

3 years ago

aight that cool u accept btc +monero?

/u/uncovered_posting-3389

1 points

2 years ago

Currently we accept only BTC, but on the new version of the online shop that is being developed Monero, Ethereum and other cryptocurrencies will be accepted

/u/smurfdude

1 points

3 years ago

When it comes to testing ketamine are you able to report whether it is racemic, S iso, R iso, or a mixture of isomers that isn't necessarily racemic?

Also prob a dumb question, but are you also detecting 2fdck, 2brdck, mxe, hxe, x-meo-pcp and other arylcyclohexylamines? Large suppliers are routinely passing these off as ketamine.

/u/EC-Staff 📢

2 points

3 years ago*

Hello!

Actually, we cannot separate R and S ketamine, we do not have the necessary laboratory equipment to do so.
In the future we will be able to do it with methamphetamine which does have more noticeable pharmacological effects - but we have been after this for some time.
but we have been after this for some time.
However, we sent various samples from different places in the world to 2 different labs that can do it, samples, from different places in the world and from experienced users, and they have given us ALL racemics.
It is very difficult to obtain pure S-ketamine (since part of the racemic, and to get it would be to lose 50% of R-ketamine) at a cost-efficiency level does not come out the accounts, Now they have released a drug (the Spravato) that is S-ketamine, but for the moment and for the info we have no S-ketamine has arrived.

And no problems to detect other arylchyclohexylamines

Thanks for your question!!

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago

How often do you receive samples of purported ketamine that turn out to be a different arylcyclohexylamine? Is it a high percentage of samples or low or what's up?

/u/HappyGrandma

1 points

3 years ago

/u/EC-Staff thank you for your great service to the community.
Now to the question:

How often did you receive samples of meth that contained n-iso ? For the last couple of years there has been an adamant belief amongst the meth users that all their meth is contamined with this n-iso and that there is "no more good meth around". This belief in the impurity of meth is ever present on reddit as well as here, despite the evidence.to the contrary (all the published drug seisures in usa and europe from the last years show purity actually increasing rather than decreasing). Anyway, perhaps you are not that interested in the meth community's mystery of the day, so I will stop rambling.

and a second question, related, how often do you see research chemicals being sold as good ole.illegal drugs? Do people send in stuff that they bought as "amphetamine" for instance only to find out they were tricked with an obscure, and infinitely more expensive, designer drug ? This another belief that gets repeated over and over around here, and i am just curious if this has anything to do with reality.

Thank you again for the great work you do.

/u/[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago*

How accurate is your testing for lsd on blotter and for crystal? Is there a margin of error?

/u/earpain

1 points

3 years ago

I am not with Energy Control. But as a chem hobbyist I can tell you that your question and many related ones are nearly answered up top, because they have explained which specific Analytical Chemistry methods they are able to do. Spectral techniques and others are very good at fingerprinting chemicals, and chromatography, especially with computer support, is super precise at separating mixtures and measuring proportions found. Only chiral analysis calls for different methods, for most applications drugs, space travel, crime scenes, and others

/u/uncovered_posting-3389

1 points

2 years ago

The margin of error for LSD is ±5%. We ran different experiments and came to the conclusion that the error is not higher than this value.

Thanks for asking.

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago*

Thanks for providing this service to the world! Your legends for this! hoping you will be coming back to answer some questions in the next few days after more people have seen this thread.

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago

Why are the full analytical reports no longer offered? Why not offer them for high fee?

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago*

Do you every have correspondence with Drugs Data or work with them in any capacity?

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago

How many people work for Energy Control? How many of those are professional chemists?
Is it all volunteer work? How do you find employees? How long does the usual worker stay at Energy Control?

Are the original people who started EC still involved with it?

/u/uncovered_posting-3389

2 points

2 years ago

Energy Control currently has 23 employees and around 100 volunteers.
Many of the employees have been there since its foundation 25 years ago. Others have joined over the years, but in general, the average for most of them is around 10 years.
Those in front of the analysis service are graduates of pharmacy, chemistry and biology.
In general, although the work dependent on more or less stable public funding is hard, all the people (professionals and volunteers) are committed to our work and we love it ;)

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago*

I think i remember reading that you were partially funded by a grant at some point.

Is your biz solvent? get funded any other way than service fees for testing?

/u/EC-Staff 📢

1 points

2 years ago

Hi,

Energy Control is not a business. It is an NGO programme - https://abd.ong/

It is a non-profit organisation. The reason we charge a part of the tests (a part, because the prices do not cover the tests completely) is to finance the maintenance of the equipment and the purchase of consumables needed to carry out the tests.

On the other hand, the activity at the national level is financially supported by the Spanish Ministry of Health and some regional organizations.

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago

What is the most surprising thing you've found in a drug sample?

The most funny thing found?

The most poisonous thing?

/u/EC-Staff 📢

1 points

2 years ago

The most surprising: We once got a sample which turned out to be dried blood.
Funny? We have come across many samples which were actually rather funny things, like a soap bar, table salt, sugar…
The two most poisonous things we have found so far are carfentanil and Bromo-DragonFLY. In the case of the first one, we were sent a sample labeled as “Unknown” which we found out to be carfentanil. This put the whole analysis team in risk. In the case of the Bomo-DragonFLY, the samples was purported to be 2C-B-FLY, which is 20-40 times less potent.
;)

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago

If you encounter a new chemical which you've never seen and you don't have a library match for, what do you do to identify it?

/u/FTKM_EC

2 points

2 years ago

Hi, sorry for the late response:

We run these samples by all the instruments we have access to. We use our GC/MS to obtain its mass spectrum and compare it to different libraries. We also run it by LC/MS to get its molecular weight and its UV spectrum. We also test it with FTIR. In case we were not successful at identifying it, we can always send this sample to Universitat Jaume I, with which we have a collaboration, in order to get a 1H-NMR spectrum. This can be useful to elucidate its structure.

Stay safe :)

/u/CDOG

1 points

3 years ago

Has there every been an accidental dosing of a sample of drugs being handled? If yes, how did it happen?

/u/strace

1 points

3 years ago

I think it's over dog. They were only open for questions for an hour.

Tragic I know, I would have loved to hear responses to the questions you asked.

/u/earpain

1 points

3 years ago

Most of them are already answered on their website

/u/strace

1 points

3 years ago

Some are. But those weren't the questions I was interested in hearing them answer. That's because I already knew the answer from reading their site verbatim front to back. I was interested in hearing answers to questions that had not already been answered on their site or listings.

/u/EC-Staff 📢

1 points

2 years ago

We are sorry we have not been able to reply until now! But here we are ;)

No, this has never happened. We always follow the established safety measures, especially if we are dealing with an unknown sample or a fentanyl analogue.

/u/thebachelor

1 points

3 years ago

I don't know if you're still answering or not, but I am a regular user of mephedrone. Firstly I wanted to ask if you are capable of discerning the difference between mephedrone or 4-MMC from compounds like 3-MMC and 4-CMC? I understand that it's not possible to do so with the standard reagent kit you can buy, but can you do it with the proper equipment? I also want to know your opinion on the drug, if any, especially when compared to MDMA. I do mephedrone once a month, usually going through 1-1.5 grams. There's not a lot of information on it out there, it'd be nice to know how destructive it is for my body.

/u/uncovered_posting-3389

1 points

2 years ago

Hello,

With the techniques we currently have, we differentiate perfectly between 4-MMC and others (such as 3-MMC or 4-CMC).

Regarding the use of mephedrone and the short-medium term consequences, this will be determined in part by the use you make of it (motivation for consumption, dosage, redosing, …) and your physical and psychological characteristics (your state of health, physical and mental, whether you are going through a bad patch or not, etc.). This link gives you access to precise information on its effects on the body and the important contraindications to taking into account: https://erowid.org/chemicals/4_methylmethcathinone/

Thanks for reaching out!