News Feed
  • DrugHub has agreed to fully refund all users who lost money in the SuperMarket exit scam.  
  • Retro Market has gone offline. Circumstances of the closure unknown.  
  • SuperMarket has closed following an exit scam by one of the admins.  
  • The admin of Incognito Market, Pharoah, has been arrested by the FBI several months after exit scamming.  
  • Silk RoadTorhoo mini logo
  • darknet markets list
  • Popular P2P exchange LocalMonero has announced it is closing.  

Did everything right, still received a "love letter" on a domestic order : DarkNetMarkets | Torhoo darknet markets

I have been ordering from DNMs for about a year now, first through arch, then abacus, now DarkMatter and DrugHub.

Today I received a letter from USPS' Criminal Invetigations Service Center stating that,

"An item placed into the US Postal Services mail stream is currently being withheld from delivery as there are reasonable grounds to believe its contents are nonmailable as proscribed in US Postal Service Publication 52, Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Mail. Our atempts to contact you and the sender to obtain additional information have been unsuccessful."

The letter was sent via priority mail and looks and feels legit.

I have placed four orders recently, two from DH which have both arrived, one from DM which arrived, and one on Abacus two days before it shut down which never arrived. So in total, I have gotten three out of four of my orders in the past month. The Abacus order that did not arrive was from (well known vendor #4), and I am not sure if it ever shipped or not but was for a small number of pills, less than $100.

The letter is also dated July 17th, I placed the abacus order from (well known vendor 4) over a month ago now, but again, it is the only one that never arrived. My other 3 orders since then have all arrived without issue ((well known vendor #1), (well known vendor #2), and (well known vendor #3)). All the amounts were small, 14G or less.

All my orders were PGP encrypted, domestic only, and placed from highly reputable vendors. So, what gives?

It seems like everyones recommendation is to clean house and lay low for a bit, then look into getting a PO box. I have also heard from others to never use a PO box. Any other thoughts? I thought this was supposed to be a super rare occurence.

Edit: Edited to remove vendor names per advice in comments. Not trying to spread FUD about any vendor, I only order from vendors I thoroughly research beforehand and I trust all that were previously shared here.
Ignore it, do not talk to anyone about it. If someone knocks on the door you do not have to answer it. Only talk to LE to say "I don't want to answer questions and I want a lawyer", then shut up.

You'll be fine, clean house and lay low until it blows over.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
2 points
1 day ago
Moving all my product out now, how long is it generally recommended to lay low for? I still cant believe I got a letter. I have always triple checked everything in terms of OpSec.
Until you feel comfortable again. I don't think usps has the resources or inclination to monitor your address indefinitely, Give it a couple months at least.
/u/FadedLayer
1 points
16 hours ago
This is very simple to figure out. If the letter is legit it should include the tracking # for the package, so you can look up the tracking history and see what it says.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
7 hours ago
So thats where it gets weird, it says the package was delivered on the 21st, which I now believe was a small order of K that came through. I immediately cleared house so its no longer on the property, but why would they send a letter saying its being withheld and then deliver it anyway? It was 3.5G if that matters, a small amount for personal use.
/u/FadedLayer
1 points
36 minutes ago
the letter gives a tracking number that matches an order that was delivered? that's super strange dude.
/u/Underrapsnobody 🍼
1 points
1 day ago*
So I’ve seen a good amount of love letter and seized package posts, how rare is this? I mean this guy for example ordered for about a year so that’s something. Is it down to stealth and vendor opsec at the end of the day? As long people are good buyers and follow the buyers guide? Jw man I have a baby bottle over here.
It's pretty rare and usually something about the pack that is off like odor, too much packing tape, fake return address, etc.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago*
I ordered on and off for a year, but would only place orders every 3 months or so. Typically I would order in amounts around 14G largely for personal use. I

n the past year I have gone through ordering "periods" (ordering from multiple vendors at once over the span of 2-3 days) maybe four times. In total, maybe 15 or so individually paid for orders delivered to my address. So not a significant quantity, at least in my mind.

Edit: Sorry, realize i did not even answer your question. From my personal experience I only see a couple of these threads a month about LE getting involved with peoples orders. Overall, seems like a very rare occurrence given the volume of activity on dread and DNMs in general.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Replying to you directly to share some more info since you seem to know what you are doing, but another user reached out to me directly and said they had recieved the exact same letter, same day and everything.

I am doing more research now, but there are a few incidents in my mind that could have contributed to law enforcement sending this letter,

1) either the same vendor we have used is compromised internally or externally (could be something as simple as needing better stealth),

or

2) there was exactly one time when I did not properly use PGP on Arch back when I was super green to DNMs. Law enforcement may have gotten ahold of this info during the Arch bust and preemptively sent out letters to all addresses listed within, even if there was no package intercepted.

Idk, thats all I have been able to come up with so far.
/u/Smirkaction
1 points
23 hours ago*
I have had 2 in one year. Vendor honored it and sent another package the other I don't recall what the vendor did but both I ignored. Both were an old address I nolonger use. Plausable deniablity.
/u/MrBacon420 P
7 points
1 day ago
Consider the address burnt until you move, personally.

Obviously, don't say shit, don't call the number on the letter, etc.

Most vendors won't ship to PO Boxes anyway. I'm on the side of don't use a PO Box.

Do you like where you live or drugs more? Make a decision and don't look back.
/u/stonesalt
4 points
1 day ago
You may want to redact and remove that vendor names from your post because it is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and lowers your opsec.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Redacted, good point, thank you. Not trying to spread FUD about any vendors, I had researched them all thoroughly before buying. Any missed orders were due to larger market turmoil occurring at the time.
/u/stonesalt
1 points
1 day ago
I wasn't implying FUD.
It was just bad from opsec standpoint.
Yeah, I never received a couple of Abacus orders too.
/u/ViolentRuski
3 points
1 day ago
Hmm mad sus. 9/10 times, they dont send a letter. In all my years I've had dozens of packs seized and never once got any kind of letter. Keep your eyes peeled for anyone else receiving such a letter from this vendor.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
When you say seized you mean they just never were delivered and you never got any follow up? For my order Im surprised because it was literally like $75 worth of pills haha.
/u/frankmurr
1 points
22 hours ago
When US LE seizes a package, I believe it says right on the tracking status "Seized by LE".

Is it possible you are being scammed. It's not a new trick for vendors to send fake "love letters" instead of what you paid for, but you seem to be cognizant of that little trick. This is a bit weird, but honestly, the whole USPS has been weird as fuck for a while now. It could just be a another symptom of their degradation like when your pack goes on a loop for a while.
/u/The_Mad_Hatter
1 points
11 hours ago
Not always. One thing to look for on the letter is postage. I believe that if it came from USPS Postal police, there would not be postage on it. I could be wrong on that but I think that's right.
/u/frankmurr
1 points
6 hours ago
I don't know about Love Letters specifically, but now that you mention it, I believe you are correct. I can't recall receiving a federal communication with actual postage, ever.
/u/The_Mad_Hatter
1 points
43 minutes ago
yeah that's my thought too... if it has postage, its special postage only available to the govt. I want to say that is a tip off, but I wouldn't know for sure. I just seem to recall hearing this.
/u/FadedLayer
1 points
17 hours ago
You've had dozens of packs seized....? Were these domestic, and if so how did you know they were seized if you didn't receive any letter?
/u/OnTheEggshells
2 points
14 hours ago
Don't talk about it to anyone, clean the house, neven talk to police witout a laywer.

When you feel that you don't want to lay low anymore (let's say in half a year), you can start sending parcels to yourself using different post services to validate that everything is delivered without opening and that you are not in a black list. If you try many parcels and letter and they are not siezed, then looks like you are on a safe side again.
/u/losangeldust
1 points
1 day ago
well if the AddyRUs is the only outstanding package it more than likely is that order. unless the vendor accepted your order on abacus then it went down and vendor realized that he wont get his coin and sent you the letter because he didn't want to ship product and not get paid ? that seems unlikely but i'm sure it has happened as i have read its way for a vendor to scam you. not saying that happened. you said the letter looks legit it has logos, on letterhead or whatever with a postal return address etc.. not sure why they would send it priority if its just a letter but if its the post office its not costing them anything to send you the letter. you could post the letter here and see what people think ? so have you received any orders after the 17th ? i would say if its real your address is probably burned ? i don't know i have never got a letter, i have had a package inspected by the post master before though. i would get a PO box or use a different address for awhile i know some vendors won't ship to PO boxes but i don't think its bad to have a PO Box unless your package is too big to fit in the box then you got to show your ID to get your package and that negates plausible deniability
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Yeah, it seems unlikely to me that the vendor would try and scam because the amount was less than $100. I had already chalked it up as a loss and moved on given the current market turmoil. I figured they had taken far greater losses between the two market closures. That was at the end of last month.

And yes, I didnt check my mail for a few days, but I think I recieved one more package after the letter had arrived or at least within a day or two. Specifically, I think I last checked my mail on Thursday, then checked it again today and found both a market delivery as well as the letter in my mailbox.
/u/losangeldust
1 points
1 day ago
yeah the vendors take a big hit when the markets exit scam they lose all there coin in escrow. i wouldn't think AddyRUs would try to scam you for less than 100$ they seem like a legit vendor that has been around a long time. i would tell the vendor you got a package from them seized from last month so they switch up there stealth and OPSEC use a different mailbox or different methods etc... i would clean your house and not order for a little while for sure. you might be okay you said you received three out of the four orders so your packages are still coming through but i would just to be safe lay low for little bit.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Yeah, I would certainly be open to ordering from them again. They are a reputable and well respected brand.

One other thing I was thinking about too is early on in my DNM days there was one time I did not properly use PGP for placing an order on arch. This is purely speculation, but I wonder if that information may have somehow made its way to LE, and even if they did not seize a package they still sent a letter due to a past buyer record.

It was a stupid rookie mistake on my part, and one I have never repeated since and will not make again.

Either way, just speculating because there are no obvious answers right now.
/u/losangeldust
1 points
1 day ago
well it probably wasn't from archetyp because they auto encrypted your address with the vendors PGP so you should be protected unless they kept clear text copies of address which i don't think they did because they used to show your address on your order page with it encrypted so i think you should be fine. i don't know the vendors stealth so i can't comment its more likely they where being watched then you where. what kind of pills where you ordering ? i would think if you ordered bars or something they might give you warning because that is a higher schedule 3 or 4 i think but probably would do a controlled delivery if they found addys because that's a lower schedule one because its meth, i don't know i'm just speculating. the concerning part is they said they tried to contact you but couldn't reach you which means they might try again to reach you but maybe not seeing you said it was such a small order. if that's the case and all you got is a letter you lucked out. i had a friend order some pills that got raided by homeland security in full swat gear because the vendor said they shipped from US but really shipped from the UK.
/u/zoomin 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
wonder if they are mass sending them out a friend of mine got one yesterday very similar situation as you. all orders delivered expect one from when abacus shutdown. Just assumed it was not ever sent but guess it was??
/u/Underrapsnobody 🍼
3 points
1 day ago
That makes me think it’s abacus related, the vendor probably already changed things up but what do I know.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Hmmm thats interesting to know, do you know if it was the same wording/agency? The text below is copied from another comment I just replied to, but may be relevant to your friend as well. Maybe ask them if they ever lapsed in their PGP use?

"One other thing I was thinking about too is early on in my DNM days there was one time I did not properly use PGP for placing an order on arch. This is purely speculation, but I wonder if that information may have somehow made its way to LE, and even if they did not seize a package they still sent a letter due to a past buyer record.

It was a stupid rookie mistake on my part, and one I have never repeated since and will not make again.

Either way, just speculating because there are no obvious answers right now."
/u/CapsuleCorp
1 points
1 day ago
It's one letter lmao. It's going to take like a 10k pill shipment for them to raid your house. Really you can clear your house out but give it 6 months and you'll be fine to have packages again. Don't use your name though. Also who told you a PO box isn't a good idea? That's dumb. Use a friend to get a PO box for you, win. Also you're not doing international packages so it's chill, don't get anxiety.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Yeah, overall feeling calm but more pissed than paranoid that somehow LE has gotten themselves involved in my very, very small scale activities. All I wanted was clean drugs for myself and my friends in small quantities, and now a wrench has been thrown into the mix.
/u/CapsuleCorp
1 points
22 hours ago
[removed by moderators]
/u/samwhiskey https://daunt.link
1 points
12 hours ago
Stop giving bad advice
/u/good219 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Well shit, been waiting on an order from them for over a week! That's concerning.
/u/SupremeMalik
1 points
1 day ago
Part of the problem could have been the amount of orders in one month. Packages with USPS are always followed up with a special check up with multiple packages going to the same address. I wish you good luck and Godspeed
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Really? This is the first I have heard of that approach, do you have more info? I always tried to minimize the number of orders I placed by waiting 3-4 months then ordering everything I needed at once (once again, all relatively small quantities of 3-4 substances). I figured this way would reduce the amount of deliveries I have floating around at any given time. But it sounds like you are recommending the opposite?
/u/SupremeMalik
1 points
1 day ago
The wait time you have is fine, its just you are more subjected to be searched if you have multiple packages going to the same addresses. The person who scans the packages is looking for anything that is odd or out of place. If they see one-two wierd packages they most likely will look it over, versus seeing multiple boxes with the same defect. This is partially the vendors fault but the pattern of multiple boxes with low quality or wierd packaging will raise red flags. Thats probably the reason you didnt get the last package. Bascally if their quota of wierd packages exceeds the "norm" . it will develop a trail for you as they have the same address.
/u/The_Mad_Hatter
1 points
11 hours ago
I haven't heard about this either, I'm intrigued. So are you saying this only applies to boxes with defects or coming apart? People have packages coming in all the time, I can't see how USPS would have the manpower to follow up on every address that received multiple packages. I get that Amazon packages wouldn't count but people order from ebay,etsy, etc all the time and many of those ship USPS. There has to be more to it, or maybe I'm misunderstanding?
/u/SupremeMalik
1 points
5 hours ago
Its the fact the boxes look defective that gives off a red flag and the fact that multiple of these defective boxes are going to the same address
/u/dreadprivateroberts
1 points
1 day ago
I SHIP TO PO BOXS MY OPSEC IS THAT GOOD THAT I AM FINE TO DO SO.
/u/dreadprivateroberts
1 points
1 day ago
BRO DONT EVEN WORRY ABOUT THAT SHIT. ONE OF THE VENDORS YOU USED MESSED UP THE SHIPPING. FEW WAYS IT PROBABLY OPENED WHILE BEING SHIPPED OR NOT ENOUGH TAPE. OR HE TAPED OVER THE STAMPS OR TRACKING NUMBER AND CAUSE IT. OR IS SMELLED OR LEAKED . GET A PO BOX AND ORDER FROM ME. PLAY STUPID YOU JUST SAY YOU DIDNT ORDER NOTHING. YOU DUNNO NOTHING ABOUT IT.
/u/NachoManSavage 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
I felt the same way, when I got a VM from the CISC, and they even knocked on my door one day. I started receiving packs again 2 weeks later. In my instance, it seemed like they were tracking the vendor rather than me, because once I ordered from a different vendor in 2 weeks time, the shit was flowing through the pipes again.
/u/GasPasser
1 points
1 day ago
This was to a PO box or a residence?
/u/MrBacon420 P
1 points
1 day ago
I think that's pretty obvious if you read the OP again.
/u/bkstreetathlet3 P
1 points
1 day ago
Not sure about in your country, but in mine, if something small like that was picked up domestically, i would get a love letter stating if i wanted to come collect the goods call this number .....

Obviously i never call the number, but nothing has ever come of it, and out of say ~6yrs DNM experience I've had about 5 love letters and they were from international packs.

I'd clean house to be safe, and definitely look at getting a new drop when you do start going again, but avoid using your home.
/u/eyesandears
1 points
1 day ago
how do you know the letter 'looks and feels legit" ?
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
23 hours ago
It'd be easy to replicate if you really wanted to, but in general it was mailed via priority mail, double sided and well-printed, seems like it was creased via machine, and has a longer form address than I typically use.
/u/jjy00ksae
1 points
15 hours ago
sounds like every other package of similar content
/u/kaptainkirk101 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
was it mainly flower?
/u/killanigga420 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
Probably its the seller tryna get away with it. There was a coke seller (not naming them I still buy from them since they are good) that used to sell in abacus and when it shut down, they said "We are not shipping abacus orders to keep our prices cheap" or something like that. Maybe its another seller trying that same shit
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
2 points
23 hours ago
I considered, but thought it to be unlikely given its a highly reputable seller and it was for a less than $100 order. Seems like itd be kind of silly for the vendor to burn a potential long term customer over the cost of a new xbox game.
/u/killanigga420 🍼
1 points
9 hours ago
The coke seller did too and also I found out they used to be advertised here
/u/grimpilled
1 points
1 day ago
as soon as you mentioned abacus, i knew immediately was the issue was. this is exactly why i never used that shitty UI having ass market.

now, my question for you: did you PGP encrypt manually? or did the website have an option for autoencryption?
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
23 hours ago
Haha thats fair, I always PGP encrypted manually.
/u/grimpilled
2 points
23 hours ago
good, keep doing that. but if i were to take a guess, i definitely feel like it particularly being from abacus market may be a big portion of the issue at hand... seeing as they LITERALLY just ran off with everyone's coins not too long ago. i'm not too updated on it so it could've also been a seizure, but last i heard it was gearing more towards an ES.

i would take the advice from everyone here that is actually giving solid advice. the address could potentially be burned, but it's also a possibility the vendor themselves were just creating fake love letters and sending them out to people to try to deflect from the fact that they just scammed. i would try looking up what a real love letter looks like and compare them to the one you received. i would also take into account if there's anybody else that brings up a similar issue from that one vendor.

don't overthink it. simply just be a bit more careful from now on. and if LE comes to your door, you don't even have to answer the damn door. if you do, you don't have to speak unless they say they have a warrant (and they probably don't). if you do speak, play stupid and make the claim that you have no idea what they're even talking about and that whatever pack they seized could've been anybody's doing but yours. don't even bring up what the product was. try not to make it seem like you know why they're there either. just play dumb and get them the fuck outta your face.
/u/LibertyExchange
1 points
20 hours ago
What does it say on USPS?
Domestic seizure especially on a personal amount is a red flag they're onto the vendor in my opinion.
My understanding of US mail is any domestic packages seized get marked as seized on website.
Either way, they didn't do a CD so consider yourself lucky.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
7 hours ago
Unfortunately I dont have any tracking info for the package as it was literally within a couple days of the Abacus shutdown, if that was the cause.
/u/daysofblunder 🍼
1 points
19 hours ago
that suxxxxxxx
/u/jjy00ksae
1 points
15 hours ago
doenst really matter if you "do it all right", they're alwyas gonna be on the lookout. just take a look at the postmaster generals website...dont act like mail people are blind dumbies. they know.
/u/washocean
1 points
13 hours ago
Love letter is not about PGP or the vendor, though it can be about poor stealth. Or just bad luck. They randomly searched your package (or the stealth was bad enough that it was not random) and thought the contents looked illegal -- if the letter states the specific contents like "ritalin" or "MDMA", that means they also went ahead and tested it, if the letter doesn't state specific content, that means they're not sure and they didn't test it. The letter is just them stating that they seized something that was about to be your personal property because they thought it was something that isn't legal to mail, and that, if you think they got it wrong, you can go in and be like "that is my legal herbal supplement/ hair dye/ religious item/ whatever" and go through whatever process they have to get it back from them. Obviously, if it is something illegal, you should just write it off as an L and ignore it. Nothing further will come from it. The letter is just what they legally have to send when they take something that belongs to you, same as if they seized something when they search your car - they give you a letter that tells you what to do if you want to try and dispute them and get it back.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
6 hours ago
I appreciate the reply, I just made a new thread with some new info but wanted to reply to you here as well. The package actually ended up being delivered four days later, it was a small amount of K for personal use, less than 5G. It did not appear to be tampered with in any way and the letter did not make any mention of specific substances. Now I am not sure what to think. Why send a letter saying it was withheld and then deliver it anyway?
/u/The_Mad_Hatter
1 points
11 hours ago
Wow yeah you got very unlucky it seems. To me, it would appear that the vendor is under investigation and they grabbed a stack of that vendor's packages on the day you ordered. I remember reading about NPRX arrest years ago and this is what they did. They surveiled the vendor and on at least one day they watched him drop the packs off and they went in immediately afterwards and grabbed the packs. Apparently they let the Express packages go through and seized the regularly priority packages. It was at this point the vendor should have ceased operating for a while, if not forever.

If you PGP encypted everything, it shouldn't be the market being the problem. This sounds like the vendor is under investigation and you got unlucky in that they grabbed the pack on the day he shipped your order. More than likely, there should be multiple people this happened to. Consider you got the love letter a blessing. Your address is burned. But almost certainly they aren't after you. They are building a case against the vendor. Has the vendor in question had any other seizures or missing packs lately?

The only other way I can see is if the pack broke apart in transit and it was found then. But I find that pretty unlikely. To me the biggest probability is the vendor is being actively surveilled.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
6 hours ago
So here is where it gets weird, the package mentioned in the letter ended up actually being delivered four days later. There was no mention of specific substances in the letter. My question is, why send the letter and say its withheld, and then deliver the package four days later anyway? The package did not appear to be tampered with in any way, and I immediately cleared house after. It was a small amount, less than 5g of K for personal use.
/u/The_Mad_Hatter
1 points
40 minutes ago
Whoa seriously??? You sure it was the exact same package? Did the letter have tracking and it matched? Wonder if you got an order you weren't expecting or someone used your return address... But if you are certain that its the same package, that makes no sense at all.
/u/tread
1 points
7 hours ago
I got a letter like this 2 days ago too, and it was for a pack on abacus that did not arrive. It looks legitimate to me but I can't say for certain. The USPS website doesn't indicate seizure however. I guess it could either be:
1. Abacus compromised, and vendors compromised or
2. Abacus compromised, and vendors exit scammed or
3. Abacus exit scammed, and vendors compromised or
4. Abacus exit scammed, and vendors exit scammed
Personally I think it's 4. I have ordered since then, on a different market, and received stuff so I don't think that I am under surveillance. It would be good if others that also got this chimed in.
/u/938PMHH 📢 🍼
1 points
6 hours ago
I had someone else DM me and say they got the same letter on the same day. One other option I am thinking is we may have both used the same vendor, and the vendor is under surveillance for all their outgoing packages.

My order was for a small quantity of K from a vendor named after a city.

The package ended up arriving four days later and did not appear to be tampered with in any way, making me wonder if they automatically sent out letters to all recipients of this vendors deliveries.
/u/domore
1 points
54 minutes ago
I've used that vendor in the past, their stealth is quite good. Very strange for their pack to be flagged.
/u/tread
1 points
5 hours ago
[removed]
/u/Damage111
1 points
2 hours ago
Dude, blatant scam from the vendor.

It was an Abacus order as well. Oldest trick in the book, fake love letter, markets gone vendor vanished and doesn't need to reship or take accountability for the order you placed as it was "seized"
/u/ApexMarket 🍼
-1 points
1 day ago
Clean house. YOU KNOW nothing. You didn't take receipt of anything. You have no idea what they are talking about

NEW ssd, new phone
/u/yorkshiregrow
-2 points
1 day ago
So from what it sounds like, you had 1 item seized and the value of it it is negligible in the grand scheme of things? It's unlikely they're gonna send the full weight of the police force at you but if you do get a knock by the Police I would not do what some others have suggested and I would advise you actually answer them (hopefully this just doesn't happen) and say you did not order anything at all like that but you do order things online in general. Then just stick with that as your story but don't go too deep into it just suggest someone could have sent you anything without you knowing perhaps by accident.

Again, from how it sounds, 14g or less of Aderall or some similar type product is unlikely to flag the full power of 5-0.
/u/MrBacon420 P
2 points
1 day ago
There's zero reason to talk to LE if you did not call them personally. There's zero reason to even answer the door.
/u/grimpilled
1 points
23 hours ago
this. you can literally just NOT answer the fucking door. there's no reason to even acknowledge them unless they state they have a warrant, which i'm pretty sure the OP did not imply. OP just said he got a love letter
/u/averageuser
2 points
1 day ago
I believe not wanting to answer questions isn't something the police can use to dictate that you are guilty. When someone is under arrest and the police do the miranda the first thing they say is "you have the RIGHT to remain silent" which means that even being under arrest you do not need to say anything. So why would you when they come up to your doorstep for a chat?

You are simply stating to a couple of strangers that you do not want to talk to them. Same works with salespeople and it's fine. It's literally the same thing with the police. Don't let the uniform distract you.
/u/Greycious
1 points
1 day ago
It's day 1 lawyer shit. Your choice to exercise ANY right cannot be used to indicate that you're guilty in court, but especially the 5th amendment, it is explicitly not allowed and one of the many flubs the DA handling Rittenhouses case made.

For criminal cases, that is.
/u/yorkshiregrow
-1 points
1 day ago
I understand what you're saying and I see your perspective but think about it this way. You have the right to remain silent is a right that applies when you are arrested. It isn't a defence. All it means is later if you're questioned in court, you can't have anything said then used against you but at the same time, the silence can be used against you. i.e. the court can question "why did you not say this then at the time". In this instance, you haven't been arrested or anything at all so acting suspicious to the situation can potentially just be used against you. You have not been arrested thus the right isn't relevant yet. All that's relevant is something weird got ordered to your address and the police intercepted it. A normal person in this situation would talk to the police as they would also be confused/surprised at this item being sent to their address. Hiding from the cops in this scenario only suggests you did order the item and now you are trying to hide from the authorities as you are scared to discuss it.

Logic is always the key factor that applies in life and the logic in avoiding/not answering when factually they did intercept this parcel with your address is absolutely not a smart move as it's not something a "normal person" who had illegal items delivered to their house without their consent would do.
/u/CrocodileDundee
2 points
1 day ago
Just do a quick google search about this, every lawyer that responded said whatever you do, don't admit to anything, really bad advice....
/u/yorkshiregrow
1 points
1 day ago
I do not agree with you on this. Always start off in this instance by saying it wasn't you and someone must have ordered without your consent then after that, don't say anything more if you want as you can easily argue you were scared at that point. Before this though, if you do not want them to escalate this any further it's far better to talk normally to them. A long time ago I was a buyer (only Cannabis) and the situation actually did happen to me and I spoke to the cops calmly, said what I just said here and the situation ended there. I just doubled down with the "someone could have ordered to my address without my knowledge or accidentally sent the wrong item to me". They might not have even believed me but providing this story allowed them even on their end to just close the situation and leave.
/u/GenetiCode
-3 points
1 day ago
Ur fucked