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How safe is USPS, REALLY? Post-arch. Let's sort out the facts vs myths : DarkNetMarkets | Torhoo darknet markets

I've heard people say "USPS needs a warrant to open your package" many, many times on here, yet I've also read that it depends how it was sent (from a business using a business class rate for example).

Also, that doesn't seem to stop them from poking "inspection" holes in it...

Based on what I'm seeing recently, it almost seems that the old information we have may be dated and it might be time to re-evaluate our methods, particularly for packs coming from ...the states the vast majority of them seem to come from.

administrations, and their policies tend to shift over time so it's rather silly to not go back and re-evaluate our old methods in lieu of that
/u/jamitintome 🍼 P
4 points
1 day ago
i dont think arch getting busted invalidates the 4th amendment. fud
/u/Ghwbushsr 📢
1 points
1 day ago
I don't either. that's not what I'm trying to imply at all.

What I'm saying is that there has been a huge increase in domestic postal seizures this year, coinciding with operation RapTOR, and of course the policies of last year are not necessarily the same policies of this year.

these kinds of things do tend to evolve over time, and the changes we see should be addressed in this game of cat and mouse, if the mouse doesn't wanna get caught

does the 4th ammendment allow hioles to be poked in your package? this may potentially be a civil rights violation we should all be discussing, don't you think?
/u/MrBacon420 P
1 points
1 day ago
Technically, no. I mean the USPS has informed delivery, they have databases of everything sent and to whom. Like /u/Tre said, AI is going to play a part into this if it does not already.
/u/Ghwbushsr 📢
1 points
1 day ago*
UPS & fedex have systems very similar to ID also.

I'm not saying either is superior, but I do think we should start weighing out the pros and cons and discuss the possibility USPS of 2025 may very well not be the same USPS of 2010-2024, and ways to improve on beating the AI changes that are being implemented.

To stay ahead of LE, we can't simply keep doing things the same way we always have and expect them not to catch up. we should continuously be making progressive enhancements to our OpSec, don't you think?

Doing things the same way we always have is what old geezers who are behind the times do, lol. Literally what my grandma always tells me whenever I see her doing some goofy ass shit like writing a check "this is how i've always done it" lmao
/u/DojaDesperado P
2 points
1 day ago
I think most old geezers would say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I've heard a lot of huffing and puffing about streamlining the USPS and implementing changes to bring it back from the brink, improve shipping times and efficiency, etc, but at the end of the day, government is generally very inefficient overall and rarely delivers on half of what they promise, so I would not expect drastic changes to USPS of any kind putting our various businesses/connections in jeopardy.

The poke-n-sniff sensors have been around for years but it's not widely implemented without suspicion or profiling to my knowledge.

DNM packs in total are such a small percentage of the overall mail-stream that we don't have to sweat the heat too much if you stick to standard DNM opsec related to shipping/packing/dropping/return addresses/moving around/ etc.

Thousands of needles every day are still very difficult to find if the haystack is big enough.

I do agree though that Opsec can be almost infinitely refined and should be number 1 priority always.

We also just concluded a relatively long and peaceful DNM era so if it seems like there's an uptick in lost packs, it very well could be fallout from Arch getting sacked or the disappearance of Abacus as well. Not only that, but when times are good for awhile, people tend to relax and get sloppy, both buyers and sellers for sure. Possibly even market admin. So there are at least a few reasons other than USPS tightening up their game to expect a higher than average number of lost packs, seizures, or even busts right now.
/u/Ghwbushsr 📢
1 points
1 day ago
you're right about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

like you say though, everything going on.. I'm not here to spread fud

I'm simply stating that it's like the starter on my car, taking a long time/seems to be struggling to start. maybe I should charge the battery, or get a new batttery and/or a starter, ya know, before it really is broke, and I need to go somewhere and I cant drive it.

Always better to proactively address something that's showing signs of breaking on you before it actually is broke and you don't have time to fix it
/u/ilovepizza123
1 points
16 hours ago
yeah its scary but luckily I think most of the focus is on ICE right now.. If there is a cheap $1 tracking device, a vendor could ship from an anonymous address (anyone really) and track the package that way.
/u/MrBacon420 P
1 points
16 hours ago
I don't understand why a vendor would do this. Am I missing something?
/u/ilovepizza123
1 points
16 hours ago
Its anonymous and random. A cop ordering a package from a vendor wouldn't get much information. Looking up previous sent packages wouldn't reveal a potential customer list (and all the past vendors each customer ordered from). There's a huge drawback in that without tracking the customer could deny ever receiving the package. But i mean everyone knows, if you're a vendor you're going to eventually going to get caught by current methods. all it takes is investigation
/u/the_baker 🍼
2 points
1 day ago
I think I can shed some light on this. Domestically in the US at least.

USPS is better than private companies. Private companies dont need anything to search your package its in the terms of service.

We've had packs get stolen by workers.

There have been times mailing weight that packages were taken by postal inspection. They asked if they could open it up and take a look. If permission wasnt granted I assume they would need a warrent or they would just keep it. They asked for someone to come pick it up, HELL NO.

In terms of recieving a package, anyone can send you anything, They do whats called a knock raid. Someone shows up and asks if you were expecting this package. If the person says yes they then claim ownership of it and a search is done on the house being delivered to. It's very important if anyone from USPS is delivering an illegal package to you that you say you werent expecting anything, Plausible deniability is key. Provided there is no communication or evidence of you ordering something and your dna isn't found inside the package they cant prove you had anything to do with it. And rightly so. Otherwise I could just send drugs to people I don't like and tip off the cops and get them in trouble. That would be rediculous.

If you were good about your opsec ordering the package and theres nothing else nefarious going on at your house and you dont admit anything the worst that will happen is police will look through your stuff or the person recieving the package rather. Most likely they will just take the package.

That being said, having shipped thousands of packages via usps weve had probably 99.8% success. The biggest issues have been international or large volume between major cities.
/u/Ghwbushsr 📢
1 points
1 day ago
I have noticed some anomalies, particularly with the hole poking going on with packs that were strangely delayed in transit... these were legitimate packs, not DNM. As if they had been flagged... anyway, just an observation that I'm not the only one to have seen this recently.
/u/the_baker 🍼
1 points
1 day ago
I think they might poke check them. I knew one cat who would line his boxes with stick on ceramic tiles to they couldn't. Sometimes usps does mess up. We've had packs get routed through places very far away that didn't make sense.
/u/Ghwbushsr 📢
1 points
1 day ago
I've seen packs arrive to the destination city THREE seperate times before going out for delivery. that's different than being accepted in a hot state and then not moving for a week before suddenly moving again and arriving with poke check holes.... luckily this was a legal ebay package however if it was DNM with the average stealth i've seen, it'd have been fucked.

That's a good idea with the tiles though. I think we need to start thinking about including a poke proof layer in standard stealth as I guess the point of my OP is that this seems to be their new tactic to sneakily open packs. maybe some kevlar bags?
/u/int2theocean 🍼
2 points
1 day ago
The fact that anyone believes the 4th Amendment applies to anything except for 1st Class Mail is amazing to me. You are NOT PROTECTED.Here's a flow chart:

[ Is this a package that weighs more than 13 ounces, or mailed via DHL, UPS, FedEx? Is it labelled anything other than "First-Class Mail"? ]
[ YES ] -------------------> NO 4TH AMENDMENT!
[ NO ] -------------------> YOU MIGHT HAVE 4TH AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS!

Hope this helps
/u/the_baker 🍼
2 points
1 day ago
Can you share the laws or policy differentiating first class, priority, express, same-day or 2-day? Im curious why only first class would apply.
/u/CrappyScrappy
1 points
23 hours ago
From https://pe.usps.com/BusinessMail101?ViewName=ClassesOfMail
They all have links for more detail, but the 4th amendment does not apply to mail in the mail stream. The mail would have to be on the person's property for that amendment to be invoked. It's about property search and seizure like cars and houses.

Priority Mail Express: Anything mailable, letters, merchandise.
Priority Mail:Anything mailable, bills, invoices, personal correspondence, merchandise.
First-Class Mail: Anything mailable, bills, invoices, personal correspondence, merchandise.
Periodicals: Newsletters, magazines; (formal authorization needed).
USPS Marketing Mail: Advertisements, circulars, newsletters, small parcels, merchandise.
Package Services and USPS Retail Ground: Merchandise, catalogs, printed material, computer media.
/u/AutoModerator M
1 points
23 hours ago
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/u/Ghwbushsr 📢
1 points
1 day ago
YOU MIGHT HAVE 4TH AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS!


is priority considered first class? if not then almost no packs are protected. if it is, how would the 4th ammendment apply to hole poking by the PI?
/u/HSTG2PDX1
1 points
1 day ago
The above individual knows not about what they speak. That said, no, Priority is not First Class. First Class is basically the cheapest postage that you can pay for and USPS will actually deliver you shit. No tracking, no insurance (unless you want to pay extra for one or both). No one uses First Class besides for greetings/holiday cards, bills, debt collectors, maybe magazines but I'm not 100% about that one. But yeah, you get the idea. If anything is protected by anything it's Priority protected by the 7 extra dollars that you paid for it.

The USPS is a federal entity. Feds cannot legally search and seize shit without a warrant from a judge. It's in the constition. If they do then a judge will throw that shit out of court. I've seen it done and it's happened to me but not involving the USPS. The fuzz illegaly searched my car once because I left it unlocked and rode with someone else to an event and I get back to the car in the middle of the night and there's 2 yoinkers going through my car. They made me toss the pot pipe and paraphernalia into the river that I was parked at (ikr.. weird request but they weren't taking me to jail) and then let me go. Years later, after talking to a lawyer after an actual drug arrest, the lawyer told me that leaving my doors unlocked was the smartest thing that I did that day.

USPS inspectors are nothing but glorified cops wbo work with the mail. All of the same rules apply to them that apply to cops. I know this because I have done extensive research into the matter. I Iooked at becoming a postal inspector (not for real but the requrements and what came with the job) and all of the same criterea must be met as a federal police officer. I looked into the power that postal inspectors have and they have the power of arrest, they carry guns, they can call in any precinct for backup should they need it.... they're cops. They need warrants to poke holes.

My guess is some postal worker got a little sus of your pack and did their own poking around. Probably to decide whether to steal it or not but that is not the signs of a lawful postal inspector doing their job.

I hope this helps.
/u/samwhiskey https://daunt.link
1 points
6 hours ago
Priority is first class mail, so is express. Media mail and presort standard are examples for mail that is not first class.
/u/larryyoung01
2 points
22 hours ago
I agree with this post, it seems like a fantasy the government won't shift it's operations. Like, how hard would it be to profile mail with crypto postage, or unusual return address patterns?

I wonder if using untracked lettermail for personal amounts would be safer.

There seems to be a huge increase in the frequency of reports of mail getting seized.

Personally I would not bet on the postal service inspectors giving a shit about the 4th amendment. Especially in the current environment.
/u/LBG74
1 points
1 day ago
Anecdotally I currently have 3 outstanding packages that appear to have been seized, though none actually says "seized." In 10+ years of receiving frequent, small personal-use packages I have had one seized and it was international in customs. One has been in purgatory for 3+ weeks and the other two are following the same pattern.
/u/nocensor
1 points
18 hours ago
are they all intl packs? or did one intl pack end up getting seized followed by the next ones?
/u/LBG74
1 points
6 hours ago
They're all US to US. Two are from the same vendor and same original post office--they are both stuck on "moving through network). The other one actually seems to be coming as of last night, albeit late, and from a different vendor 3000 miles away. I meant the only one I ever had seized was an int'l shipment from like 10 years ago, I got a love letter on that one. Different address from the current one though.
/u/LBG74
1 points
6 hours ago
[removed]
/u/CrappyScrappy
1 points
23 hours ago
Having worked in mailing facilities and toured USPS sorting plants, I know for a fact that they zip through those things too fast for them to have any kind of real security. If it doesn't look terrible (like, it's not leaking or smoking or has an incredibly obvious odor) it's not going to get noticed. They have way too high of a volume for that. It was nuts watching those boxes fly through the machines.
/u/NewtNewt96 🍼
1 points
21 hours ago
Always considered it to be pretty safe with little to no worries if everyone does their part. Only had 1 known seizure and a few untracked no shows which were probably scams. I always tell my friends that the smelly obvious stuff is probably not worth it if you got legit dealers/ dispensaries in your area. My only seizure ever was of course, weed from some guy we all assumed probably did a half ass job, and that was back in the dream market days. Never cared to get weed or thc products through dnm (few exceptions for someone else) ever again though...