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Some notes from the WSM Admins Criminal Complaint : DarkNetMarkets | Torhoo darknet markets

Some important things to note regarding the WSM CC.
Much of this information I have been preaching for ages now, but I feel it's important to point out real world impact of OPSEC gone wrong.

WSM was the successor of the DNM German Plaza that exit scammed in 2016, and had the same admins.

Lousee was using a VPN coupled with a mobile broadband dongle. He was deanonymized because the vpn connection dropped a few times and connected with his real IP (Mobile Dongle) to backend WSM infrastructure that the feds had previously identified (and imaged!) in its ongoing investigation. While the mobile broadband account was registered with fictitious information, forensic capabilities allowed the connection to be traced to his physical location (his home and place of work). This also allowed the Feds to identify his location by tracing this connection at the time of his arrest.

Kalla was also using a VPN to access WSM backend infrastructure. He was deanonymized most likely because the VPN Provider was logging meta data among other things. However some VPN Providers also use poor data transit encryption schemes as well as hardcoded encryption keys making decryption of captured data trivial. He was using a internet connection registered in his mothers name.

Frost was deanonymized using Blockchain analysis. His PGP public key was linked to a vendor account (dudebuy) on the imaged Hansa server seized by LE in 2017. He used a refund wallet while he was vending on Hansa that he then used a mixing service to cash out. The Postal Inspector de-mixed his coins and found Frost had used these fresh coins to purchase a digital marketing plan from a legitimate company with BTC in the name of Martin Frost and with the email klaus-martin.frost@web.de. As well prior to WSM opening in 2016, Frost used mixed BTC to pay for two accounts with a video game company with the same email address as the marketing company. After these transactions this wallet was reused and funded with transactions mixed from his refund wallet. Later on he paid for another account with the gaming company with the same email address. After this transaction, the wallet was again reused and was later funded (for other transactions) by wallets associated with commission payments from WSM.


During the exit scam it's interesting to note LE noticed members of the public sharing their own analyses of virtual currency transactions revealing that large amounts of virtual currency, estimated between $10 and $30 million, were being diverted from wallets believed to be associated with WSM to other virtual currency wallets.

In response to the exit scam LE obtained search and arrest warrants for all 3 admins.

Kalla, after being arrested and advised of his rights under German law, confessed to being an administrator of WSM. He admitted that he maintained a technical role with respect to WSM and identified the location of the WSM forum. He also admitted that he was involved in the administration and operation of a prior darknet marketplace, GPM (German Plaza Market), along with Frost and Lousee.


I've said it before and I will reiterate my position, mixing services are pointless because of blockchain analysis, and have been for a long time. They give a false sense of security and offer nothing in terms of actual protection.

Please do not rely on VPN's to protect your identity. There are Pros and Cons to using them, as well most have "kill-switch" features. However unless your a infosec professional and understand DNS and how packets are routed, exactly how VPN's operate etc, they should not be used.

Postal Inspectors have blockchain analysis and de-mixing capabilities and are actively tracing DNM purchases!!

As we progress into the future of DNM's, methods and techniques should progress as well. Using mixing services used to work back in the day but they are a huge no-no now. As a community we will not accept a new market unless they use Monero. End of story! BTC can be easily purchased and swapped to Monero, thereby breaking the chain of ownership. I will provide a tutorial on how to properly implement a Mixer as well as mixing your personal coins yourself in the future. Please upvote for visibility and as always, Thanks for reading!
/u/PG40204
15 points
6 years ago
We need a new and improved post-2019 'Deep-Web-Market-Wake-Up Call DNM Bible' because I know or have read Ive done better than most but I know I could continue to improve and be more advanced and secure than I am.
I'm a small fry but I know these times are extra creepy and uncertain.
/u/sainsmart
4 points
6 years ago
We need checklists templates for basically every situation where people can build up on from lab equipment to customer base. Thinking alone on every step should improve the security in the free space drastically.
/u/figaro
7 points
6 years ago
I think the lesson here is if you are an admin or even a vendor, do not rely on a single method to obfuscate your identity. He relied solely on a VPN to what I assume is to SSH into the server. A VPN failure is a disaster if LE already have identified the server. Even with no VPN server, you are relying on the VPN not to maintain logs and to ignore LE requests. Even if the VPN didn't fail, LE can subpoena the VPN provider for the data. the admins should have used Whonix or Tails instead of, or in addition to, to ssh into their server so that they are using TOR network to access servers. Ideally they should have set up SSH to be a hidden service as well (as a different onion than any other service running on that server of course).

Same with blockchain obfuscation. Sounds like they relied on a mixer to hide their identity. Here they are relying on the mixer's methodology to do proper hiding and many mixers do not implement properly. It is hard anyway to implement a well designed mixer but many have problems. Many mixers even have taint from the sources. Swapping to Monero would have been smart. But it depends how long they were watched, Monero became popular somewhat more recently. Not sure how old these transactions were. But my belief is that while Monero looks solid, if you are an admin, do not rely solely on just Monero but do several things including Monero to hide yourself. Case in point, years ago XMR had a flaw where old transactions were exposed. Monero has fixed this of course but the point is, you never know what flaw might be out in the wild. Never rely on one single technology to hide yourself especially if you are an admin.
/u/AZERTY
2 points
6 years ago
Surprised more people don't only admin via public wifi. Seems trivial to pick a new spot each time so LE can't sit and wait. Even if Tor gets broken, takes time, and if no CCTV very hard to know who you were.
/u/belovedturner
1 points
6 years ago
You think it's easy to find a new public wifi hotspot every day with no CCTV cameras trained on it? Every restaurant, cafe, and hotel lobby is going to have CCTV cameras.
/u/KetaMaster
1 points
6 years ago
I have found a few restaurants/cafes where the place next to them, attached to the same building, has access to their wifi. Boom not on the camera of the wifi you are accessing.
/u/VoidKreep464
6 points
6 years ago
I've said it before and I will reiterate my position, mixing services are pointless because of blockchain analysis, and have been for a long time. They give a false sense of security and offer nothing in terms of actual protection...Postal Inspectors have blockchain analysis and de-mixing capabilities and are actively tracing DNM purchases!!


XMR > Behind Bars
/u/astrolabe_wind-up
5 points
6 years ago
Brilliant post. I was hoping someone would break it all down like this. Thanks.
/u/throwaway090
2 points
6 years ago
yeah great work /u/dnmdnmdnm now do medelins: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1159711/download
/u/DrinkMoreCodeMore
5 points
6 years ago*
Lousee also logged into WSM infrastructure from his work.

So about Frost, if you search "klaus-martin.frost@web.de" in db leaks, a lot of interesting hits come up. Frost was fucked as soon as they got that email for sure. The first thing LE did was run that email thru DB leak info. He used this same email as the main email he used on the crypto exchanges where he tumbled and sent his WSM funds. The document calls it "Records obtained from the Bitcoin Payment Processing Company" but I'm going to guess it was a major player like Coinbase, Binance, Kraken, or etc. that easily handed over the info.

The video gaming company they are talking about in the investigation doc is Hexui, a CSGO website.

Hexui db:
...,0.00,0.00,'5AH13661XV416951L','web_accept','','','','','Klaus','Frost','','','','','','','','','','klaus-martin.frost@web.de','Y4K3YTBYTJ3L2','verified','DE','','','','','','',0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0,0,'',0,'','','',...
...,0.00,0.00,'4LW01306B8600993G','web_accept','','','','','Klaus','Frost','','','','','','','','','','klaus-martin.frost@web.de','Y4K3YTBYTJ3L2','verified','DE','','','','','','',0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0,0,'',0,'','','',...
...,'KwlMSceI','97AABC9B83C8FA3980686FA54BEB79F','KAqGdxwEaIiIOOCZ4CXqVvp4S9zPJhllbxdSttOr8js6EMYFfE','klaus-martin.frost@web.de',10,'','','',5,'',0,'',NULL,0,1447273532,1455922332,1455335836,1454645606,'','0','','','','','all',...

Blackhatworld:
(712106, 2, '', 0, 'Martiniii', '670b2dbe11580798a0cd4cb870826971', '2013-10-22', 'klaus-martin.frost@web.de', 0, '', '', '', '', '', 2, 0, 'Newbies', 0, 1381171590, 0, 1382208935, 1382456805, 1381676960, 6, 10, 5, '-1', 2, 0, 0, 0, 45112391, '11-23-1989', '1989-11-23', -1, -1, '85.180.122.150', 0, 1, '', 0, 0, 2, 4, 1, '^H$cSu\'I+}Jp5)%[*?Rx_\\OL51I/\\J', '', 0, 6157150, 0, 0, 0, 0, '', 0, 0, 72, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 100, 1, '', 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, '', '', 0, '', 'vb', '', 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1381172087, '1', 0, 0, 0, '', '', 0, NULL),

If you go view his BHW profile, he only has 6 posts all talking about dropshipping shit - https://www.blackhatworld.com/members/martiniii.712106/


Compelation #1 breach:
klaus-martin.frost@web.de:0171sualk
klaus-martin.frost@web.de:klaus1710123
klaus-martin.frost@web.de:noroguni
klaus-martin.frost@web.de:klaus1710
/u/rodriguez11
2 points
6 years ago
Great post, mate. Well done.
/u/sync-racer
1 points
6 years ago
There is a serious connection to the XRP movements in micro investing and reselling according to your guess of the major player.

i do not have time to do this, nor the resources - but you could take a look. my guess (most likely the best) is the binance market, because i think some germans (i-Unlimeted or something) did the base structure of the portfolio used and spread out.
A scam is most likely a recognizable move of value that fits these papers. A) they knew and abused B) they didn´t and blew us anyway by a single one realizing

maybe we can bust the shit out of them.

for all that enjoy some fun, i provide you with an email adress i created to spread joy to all. They deny emails from time to time to it (e.g. from my bank or some girls that like me). They just hate me.

bustthensa [ A).]]D..OL;;;F]}} we HIT them LER ]]]] k.i;;LL}}}} Trumpettrump (they the same roflmao) g. HELL DotA 6.41 on WC3. com
/u/newbieforever2018 P
3 points
6 years ago
Well deserved upvote from me. Thanks so much!
/u/figaro
3 points
6 years ago
Also to add, it looks like two large vendors were identified via Wall Street. My guess is that this is also due to blockchain analysis. Wall Street's wallet system exposed vendor to buyer because of the way the wallets worked. In a traditional hot wallet market, coins go into a large pot/wallet, and a buyer and seller in a large market won't see one another's BTC transaction without extensive analysis. With Wall Street, anyone making a buy from a vendor will be able to follow the withdrawal of the vendor.

The above should be a huge note to anyone running their own shop. Your deposit addresses are directly visible to all buyers - obviously - so a controlled buy from LE should be assumed from each transaction and you better know how to cover your BTC tracks very well. Same goes for any market that employs a wallet system similar to WSM. Be careful!
/u/legron
3 points
6 years ago
> know how to cover your BTC tracks very well

Easiest way to do that is not to have BTC tracks.
Fuck BTC
/u/FullyAutomatedLuxury
3 points
6 years ago
Fuck BTC

Seriously. No clue why vendors continue to insist on accepting a crypto that uses a fully public ledger and without any privacy features. Especially as blockchain analysis has come a long way in the last few years. Shame that it takes an event like this to wake people up, but maybe that's the silver lining.
/u/DrugWarRefugee
1 points
6 years ago
Ya i was naive enough to trust btc mixers a few times but quickly learned that was an incredibly thin layer of security.
I do 100% monero for everything now. Everything thats been goin on lately I cant imagine why anyone would be dumb enough to use bitcoin directly.
/u/dnmdnmdnm 📢
2 points
6 years ago*
I like what Libertas is about! And it's back up with version 4.0. Let's get all our favorite vendors on this market
/u/sainsmart
2 points
6 years ago
I think support Openbazaar to grow up technically and run op without middle ground is the way to go.
/u/idkwtf
1 points
6 years ago
I thought they exit scammed before, no? It's just that it was so small, like no one noticed
/u/RealApollo
1 points
6 years ago
they did like a half one and came back when dream went down
/u/checkpointusa
5 points
6 years ago
JUST A LIL EXIT SCAM
/u/jt2047
2 points
6 years ago
Not a big one just like a half of one you know?
/u/IWONDER
1 points
6 years ago
just a little exit nbd
/u/KingBarthurOfXanalot
6 points
6 years ago
feeling cute might exit later idk
/u/suedoe
1 points
6 years ago
I don't think so.
/u/digitalempire
2 points
6 years ago
WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!! All the FUCKING N00BZ keep on askin about the "BEST" VPN service to use? Clear as day, you dont use a VPN while using ToR. It dont matter if you are using a mobile hotspot, a hospot at a restaurant, or at home using a direct connection. USE A VPN and your shit will leak out and you end up becoming another LOW HANGING FRUIT that the Feds can snatch
/u/DrugWarRefugee
2 points
6 years ago
VPNs are not as bad as you make them sound. Its all about the company you choose.
I might recommend NordVPN as they are based in panama and are not a part of the 5eyes.
plus their (hopefully true) no log policy. Plus their service includes a reliable killswitch on sysstem level as well as app level killswitch.
VPN services may not be perfect and there are plenty i would never use for this purpose, but the right vpn can have you better off than no extra layer of protection at all.
Go with a VPN with good encryption, no log policies that you can hopefully trust, and a company that is not withing the reaches of the 5 eyes, add a killswitch feature and pay with anonymous monero currency and you should be fairly secure. at least more so than with just tor by itself. Nord can also take care of DNS leaks, I have tested it myself. And it runs really well on linux which brings me to another point that I feel no one has mentioned so far. LEARN HOW TO USE LINUX!! (if you don't already) USING WINDOWS FOR THE DARK WEB IS ASKING TO GET CAUGHT VPN OR NO VPN. In any situation or methodology, Your opsec will always be weak on a windows machine.
/u/DrugWarRefugee
2 points
6 years ago
The other benefit of using TOR through VPN is that your ISP won't be able to tell if you are using TOR or not because your connection is encrypted from your ISP.
/u/fantasticdave666
1 points
6 years ago
You could also achieve this by using bridges in Tor.
/u/DrugWarRefugee
1 points
6 years ago
Good point.
/u/belovedturner
2 points
6 years ago
Um, if he hadn't been using a VPN, that wouldn't have made the feds' job any harder. Certainly his ISP was logging more information than his VPN provider was. The only reason he was caught was because the VPN connection dropped and it didn't have a "killswitch" feature, so they were able to obtain his real IP. If he hadn't take any steps to conceal his real IP, their job would have been even easier because they wouldn't have had to wait for a dropped VPN connection.
/u/DrugWarRefugee
1 points
6 years ago
Thank you for making this excellent point. I feel it was overlooked.
/u/sainsmart
1 points
6 years ago
To put an extra layer between you and tor is maybe not the worst idea (tor maybe comprised who knows?) It just has to be technical sound and in your control (like a raspi you ssh to that is somewhere hidden in a public space with WiFi) and not a "hey boiz we are the super gangsta definitely not NSA VPN service, do trust me!"
/u/GuidedByVices
1 points
6 years ago
It's not the craziest idea ever (if a little MrRobot-y), but just think of what kind of interest a suspicious electronic device is going to generate if found in a public space.
/u/sainsmart
1 points
6 years ago
Stuff like that work, and even when they are caught - they are, done right, just a tor port forward accessed from tor. When you don't leave fingerprints on it they are at this moment at point 0.
/u/DrugWarRefugee
1 points
6 years ago
You are correct. Tor by itself is not free of vulnerabilities. You will leak DNS at the very least by simply using tor by itself unless you have configured otherwise on your system.
I think it is a good idea to put the extra layer there. Fuck errbody else. Use NordVPN they are outside the 5 eyes. (meaning foreign government subpoenas dont mean shit to them.) NordVPN is also one of the best rated for encryption and speeds.
/u/fantasticdave666
1 points
6 years ago
It's not really worth the subscription fees for me since I think the best way to stay safe is to just use TAILS so my entire operating system will be configured to preserve anonymity at all costs. Most people are not going to be able to home-grow a better solution unless they're security expert.
/u/DrugWarRefugee
1 points
6 years ago
Linux OS of your preference, a **Good** VPN with Killswitch, routed through tor works just fine. and yes it is of course wise to route all system traffic through tor as I also have configured my system. I didn't have to use tails to do it though and im not a security expert. Just a properly configured linux distro, updated, VPN tunnel to mask all other traffic routed through tor. I have tried tails, and also accomplished basically the same thing on another easier to use distro. My whole system is routed through tor just the same. Just with the added VPN i think is not going to hurt at the very very least.
/u/fantasticdave666
1 points
6 years ago
The wall street admins were connecting to their back end VIA CLEARNET. If they had used Tor in between VPN and Wall Street, then they might have actually been ok. But I agree that a VPN is unnecessary, privacy by policy (VPN) will never beat privacy by design (TOR).
/u/einstein2
2 points
6 years ago
Thanks for that breakdown you were able to explain it very well bc now I have a better understanding of what happened. Truly shows the importance of good opsec and not letting your illegal and legal existences crosx contaminate one another. I also came to the same conclusion about mixing and tumbling after reading how ineffective it proved to be. I am surprised they arent arresting people by the dozens utilizing blockchain analysis bc it seems like they could if they wanted to. So is the general consensus now that converting to monero is the only legitimate way to separate your coins from your identity? If your btc dissappears when it turns to monero and the trail goes dark at that point what would it look like to the blcckchain analysis person? They would see your btc and would it just dissapear to them? Or would they assume that it was turned into monero bc things dont normally just disappear? Or would it maybe look like you possibly sold the btc? Just tryng to imagine how exactly converting to monero would look like to an analyst. Any ideas? This stuff is ifascinating but also crucial to anyone living that market life.
/u/mirrors_please
1 points
6 years ago*
The bitcoin wouldn't just disappear and the bitcoin trail wouldn't end at the btc - monero trade; what happens after the trade is up to the exchange... it will be on its merry way in whatever adventure it finds itself on
/u/themanintheyellowhat
2 points
6 years ago
I agree wholeheartedly that Monero should be the corner stone of the money system for the dark web and markets.

The more I understand about Bitcoin, the more I understand that this type of cryptocurrency is obsolete and foolish to use in clandestine trades are done.
/u/[deleted]
1 points
6 years ago
I've been using XMR for some while now and its much better to not have to go through the time consuming process of BTC mixing anymore (which probably doesnt anonymize the users anyway). However, pretty much all mainstream markets have been busted, and while we might not have any right now new ones are going to pop up eventually. Instead of busting new markets every few months the feds could just legalize the stuff the majority of people visit the markets for anyways and get tons of tax money while they're at it. But then again, im not the government
/u/BigSticks
1 points
6 years ago*
i hate to be a burden to your skewed world view but we don't need every crackhead that wants dope or every psych user that wants psychs on crack/on psychs, driving around, trying to live their lives. i get tired of hearing people say "legalize it"
there is so much more to it

consider a crackhead not being able to afford his fix, so he is fiending hard, he goes and kills a family in their home, steals their goods, gets killed by police in a standoff. then what did that solve? not shit

there are many things that go into making shit like this happen. it is and will never be as simple as "legalize it"

edit
"why would having it illegal stop that from happening?" does not work by the way. if it's legal, they have much harder and faster access to it. they could even rob a place that vends the shit.
/u/[deleted]
1 points
6 years ago
I am not for the legalization of hard drugs, and I frankly dont want anything to do with crack etc., but weed, which isnt particularily addictive had helped me deal with insomnia over the years, but now that option got taken away from me. To be honest I find it ridiculous to have to resort to dark net markets for such miniscule things, but now Ill have to go down the road of sleep medication from the pharmacy which is really pointless, especially since its synthesized and not naturally made.
/u/BigSticks
2 points
6 years ago
i understand weed, my friend. but i wouldn't say that's what the majority of users are here for. a large amount want nothing to do with weed. maybe markets that focus on just weed get a better chance at staying safe. for all we know, they don't even pay attention to CGMC, etc.

but we can't afford to insinuate
/u/df118s
1 points
6 years ago
don't know about crack, but if opiates were legal you would have far less crime. A dose of pure diamorphine (H) costs pennies to manufacture. If junkies could buy their H for a dollar a day, they wouldn't need to go out robbing people and stealing from houses to fund their habit.
I'm not saying it should be next to the tylenol in the supermarket; but there should be regulated "Drug Shops" where you can go to buy your drugs. Weed and other light drugs would be generally available. Hard opiates like H would be available if you produce an ID card - this ID card would be given if you supply a positive blood test to prove you are a user.
/u/astrolabe_wind-up
2 points
6 years ago
OK sorry if this is a dumb question.

RE: the VPN issue -Lousee was connecting to backend WSM infrastructure through a VPN without going through TOR at all?

Do I have that right? How can you even connect to a hidden TOR service without going through TOR?
/u/figaro
5 points
6 years ago
My guess is that they didn't set up some services as hidden services. I am betting they are referring to this guy ssh'ing into the server. SSH was obviously not set up as a hidden service and he relied on a VPN to shield himself which is a terrible strategy for an admin if that was his only line of defense. He could have used TOR to ssh into the server even if SSH wasn't set up as a hidden service. Ideally you set up SSH as a hidden service but this introduces other complexities should the hidden service for SSH go down for some reason.
/u/ph0reskin
1 points
6 years ago
cryptostorm.is for example lets you use hidden services without connecting to a tor node yourself. you can just use your normal browser and throw .onion links at it. (You still have to think about fingerprinting, so using the TOR browser probably still is best practice depending on your threat model). I still often use the feature and the VPN itself has a great reputation and staff.
Also I'd rather be visible using a VPN then beeing visible using TOR at my home adress.
/u/AusPostDelivers
1 points
5 years ago
Hi DF (haha)
/u/stillslingin
2 points
6 years ago
sold brother....xmr for me from now on
/u/babohead
2 points
6 years ago
I'm curious how they found the server infrastructure. Had they not found that the VPN leak would have been less critical
/u/legron
1 points
6 years ago
^THIS THIS THIS!!
This is what I came here to ask.

From the OP:
>WSM infrastructure that the feds had previously identified (and imaged!) in its ongoing investigation

HOW DID THEY FIND THE SERVER IN THE FIRST PLACE?

"Is Tor broken?"
/u/AZERTY
2 points
6 years ago
>HOW DID THEY FIND THE SERVER IN THE FIRST PLACE?

They probably DDOSed to push people towards nodes they controlled

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERT_Coordination_Center#Operation_Onymous

I read up on that attack. It's really quite simple. They spin up notes and run them nice till they're trusted, then start DDOSing to push people to the nodes they run.

If they can see both ends of the connection it's game over.
/u/fucke
1 points
6 years ago
If you look over the internet German police seized names and banking details of donors to TorServers, friend of mine had his server confiscated in Germany when his site had legal problems in US. If they were located in EU/US I wouldn't be surprised if they monitored servers that connect often to tor adresses. So I guess it would be nice to route traffic or keep servers in countries that don't like "west" and have crappy law enforcment. Like maybe Bolivia or some Middle Eastern countries.
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/u/fantasticdave666
1 points
6 years ago
>This is blatantly wrong. Blockchain analysis is unable to definitively link addresses when using a reliable mixing service (no logs etc.)

Yes that's true, the problem is how do we know whether a mixing service is reliable or not? That can be really hard to know. LE might take over a coin mixing service just like they did with countless other darknet sites in the past, then everyone is deanonymized.

>With reference to the false sense of security we have the same issue with TOR itself.

As far as I'm aware, no busts so far have been due to weaknesses in TOR protocol. It's possible that TOR is totally compromised and government is using parallel construction to cover it up, but then why are you risking your life to be a vendor on TOR if you really believe in this?

>I have strong doubts about their abilities but even if they were able to reliably track purchases it would depend on having access to the addresses or pubkeys in use by markets.

This becomes a real concern when markets get seized by government.

>While I agree using XMR has its benefits you're luring us into a false sense of security.

It's at least as effective as mixing your coins, which you've said you believe to be reliably effective at anonymizing your coin. Monero is better because there's no tumbling service in the middle that you have to trust to do the mixing for you.

People shouldn't take chances with their opsec. Too many people have gone down for it. We should always use the best tools available to us. TAILS, Monero, and PGP should be the bare minimum. We should always be trying to improve our opsec and stay safe. It's better than living a life of regret if you're caught.

I will say that, as a buyer, I would not consider buying from anyone who didn't accept XMR, because it tells me that they aren't following best practices in opsec.
Yes that's true, the problem is how do we know whether a mixing service is reliable or not? That can be really hard to know. LE might take over a coin mixing service just like they did with countless other darknet sites in the past, then everyone is deanonymized.

I agree, it's hard to know and too much to ask of ordinary customers.

As far as I'm aware, no busts so far have been due to weaknesses in TOR protocol. It's possible that TOR is totally compromised and government is using parallel construction to cover it up, but then why are you risking your life to be a vendor on TOR if you really believe in this?

As far as I can tell TOR is safe. My point was there is a comparison to be made at some level regarding trust and possible issues. You can easily deanonymize yourself but most users know to at least take some precautions. Also TOR project is FOSS.

This becomes a real concern when markets get seized by government.

Indeed it does, which is why I'm surprised that inter alia vendors aren't forced to change pubkeys (for multisig) frequently. Unfortunately we can't control what markets do with regard to their wallets and history, besides I generally assume their addresses are public knowledge.

It's at least as effective as mixing your coins, which you've said you believe to be reliably effective at anonymizing your coin. Monero is better because there's no tumbling service in the middle that you have to trust to do the mixing for you.

It could and should be consistently more effective but we need an honest discussion and guidance for newcomers. Without that I feel we're moving in the right direction in the wrong way. I see too many posts devoid of substance in support of XMR but I haven't seen (m)any guides. The mental model of such a poster might not be appropriate, at the very least due to information being revealed unrelated to the cryptographic obfuscation and we should be aware of that.

People shouldn't take chances with their opsec. Too many people have gone down for it. We should always use the best tools available to us. TAILS, Monero, and PGP should be the bare minimum. We should always be trying to improve our opsec and stay safe. It's better than living a life of regret if you're caught.

I will say that, as a buyer, I would not consider buying from anyone who didn't accept XMR, because it tells me that they aren't following best practices in opsec.

I commend thee. We should all try best as we can to improve opsec. At the same I believe there are limits and for this process to be effective we must be moving the burden to the vendors and markets as much as possible. Consumers should just have an easy and safe experience unless they order particularly nasty stuff or large amounts, depending on local law. It would not surprise me if Android is regularly used even by vendors.

Not being aware of any current weaknesses (haven't read up on monero in some time) I think the basics (buyers) are:
  • TOR
  • PGP
  • Monero or BTC

Tor Browser has sane defaults and should be good enough for most.
Don't use a market's auto-encrypt feature; I tell people who order all the time. Don't skimp on the keysize, don't share your private key.
BTC on the list due to people having at least a modicum of understanding and the fact I haven't seen a market offer XMR multisig yet.
/u/legron
-1 points
6 years ago
You need to ask yourself why that magnificent piece of software wasn't enough to get him for vending on Hansa when they did arrest a bunch of other vendors. Cost-prohibitive?


A few years ago companies selling turnkey chain analysis "solutions" to LE weren't known to the public. Governments try keep at least a few years's edge between what they have access to, and what is publicly accessible.

Blockchain analysis is unable to definitively link addresses when using a reliable mixing service


How do you know you are using a reliable mixing service? Why would a government not run dozens of "independent" mixers and just saturate the market? It would cost nothing; the whole point is that they're profitable.

A few years ago companies selling turnkey chain analysis "solutions" to LE weren't known to the public. Governments try keep at least a few years's edge between what they have access to, and what is publicly accessible.

You're not answering the question. You assume they can, but then they're using it selectively. Why?
Note that CipherTrace & Chainalysis have been around for years so you're statement is void. Also, they still need to have a starting point or an endpoint. Where are they getting the addresses/public keys? I see most vendors (of which they definitely have the pubkeys used) are still around. How then?
By the way, read the PDF:
Law enforcement has used proprietary services offered by
Blockchain analysis companies to investigate Bitcoin
transactions


How do you know you are using a reliable mixing service? Why would a government not run dozens of "independent" mixers and just saturate the market? It would cost nothing; the whole point is that they're profitable.

How do you know you're using a reliable wallet? Why would government not run dozens of "independent" tor nodes and identify everyone? Oil&gas is linked to terrorism and it's a profitable sector, is the government in control of every valve, drop of oil etc?
By law they're not allowed to do however they please. Saturating the market with mixing services might very well be one of those things. Otherwise all markets would be founded and run by LE.
/u/DivYConq
2 points
6 years ago
Thanks for posting this, how would you convert BTC that are bought with an app such as Coinbase to XMR, safely? /u/dnmdnmdnm
/u/babohead
1 points
6 years ago
Something like morph token
/u/tetris
1 points
6 years ago
You can trade BTC for XMR anonymously on Bisq.
/u/DivYConq
1 points
6 years ago
i dont understand how to place buy orders for xmr
/u/the_plague
1 points
6 years ago
You don´t really have to care, monero transactions are obfuscated in the blockchain. You can exchange BTC to XMR on any KYC exchange (kraken, bittrex, binance,...). When you withdraw to your monero wallet, the audit trail is broken. Best practice is to generate a one-time subaddress in your wallet for your withdraw, though the exchange never knows your primary address.
/u/CardMan
1 points
6 years ago
I would not write you do not need to really care, because monero has also some flaws but of course much better than a public ledger like bitcoin. you should always be aware about tracing even it is just the amount you send but splitting and multiple transactions helps a lot and a combination of multiple layers to not trust only 1 crypto implementation should be even more secure
/u/fripinl
1 points
6 years ago
Good info, thanks. Never used a BTC mixer just XMR.
I don't know a lot or use a lot but I read some info and this seemed to be a very good way of staying safe.
Tails:BTC - Tor:XMR - There are a couple of places/services I know of that will accept Tor connections and no longin info required to convert BTC to XMR
New XMR is sent to a Wallet that is then accessed with VPN, XMR then converted to BTC - Cashout.
Is this as safe as it can be considering that not many services can be used over Tor or without some form of registration?
/u/potato-man
1 points
6 years ago
How safe is going from btc -> monero -> btc again? What's an approximate percentage in loss due to fees from those conversions?
/u/legron
2 points
6 years ago
btc -> monero -> btc
This is safe as long as the monero wallet is not an exchange wallet. It has to be your own wallet ie only you have the private key.
/u/whythesadface
1 points
6 years ago
but if btc is exchange wallet there is risk too?
/u/Tulpaforcer
2 points
6 years ago
Yes. Keep all crypto wallets on your own Tails sytem with your own keys stored yourself. This is why morphtoken and XMR.to are so good. You can do it without the use of a big clearnet exchange.
/u/Dreamvendor
1 points
6 years ago
If they knew who they were since 2018 or before, what was they waiting for?
/u/goreshard
2 points
6 years ago
man, are you REALLY that blind???? they set up the market, or infiltrated it!!!! this is not DARKNET anymore, its POLICENET!
/u/Dreamvendor
2 points
6 years ago
Come again? Can you elaborate in English
/u/tomush
1 points
6 years ago
I'm afraid that may be right mate. Country of my origin was ruled by secret police and the last couple of weeks on dark net reminds me old bad times in my country where agents and informers infiltrated every single organization and even created fake opposition to control ppl who disagreed with the government or went against the system. What is really happening we'll find out in a next few months. I hope we're wrong.
/u/audielysian
1 points
6 years ago
My guess is they wanted to seriously fuck them and build up their case and seize the market and run a honeypot but when the exit scam happened they knew they had to act immediately.
/u/Dreamvendor
1 points
6 years ago
Yeah the exit scam hurried it along for sure but what have they been doing to allow 3 admins of a major market to run for so long facilitating the sale of opiates and other shit that is more beneficial to them than stopping alll those sales all that time ago? Hmmmmmm
/u/phelps
1 points
6 years ago
This is pretty scary. Read many of these recent reports where it seems like postal inspectors were able to de-mix coins easily. Do you think if we used something like Grams Helix in the past (when it was still around) that we are in danger of being identified? I stopped mixing a while ago but those transactions are still on the blockchain. And if so why have there not been mass arrests of people who used tumbling services in the past?
/u/figaro
1 points
6 years ago
The problem with mixing services is that you have no idea how they do it and no real proof if their method is effective. To be safe, its better to assume that the mixer doesn't know what they are doing and to employ other methods instead of, or in addition to, mixing. As a buyer, I wouldn't worry too much. If you are a large vendor or one that is engaged in substances being targeted like opioids, then I guess you never know.
/u/legron
0 points
6 years ago
How many mixers are run by governments? Why wouldn't a government run like 10 mixing services knowing they will get ~90% of the mixes that way?
/u/Tulpaforcer
0 points
6 years ago
If you are small time buyer, just clean up your house and clean/destroy your computers. Delete and sweep all your wallets into monero wallets or cash out. No harm in starting the entire thing all again and getting a new online identity with a new ISP/location/OS, new PGP keys etc. Depending on your threat model you can just start everything all over again on a clean slate. They can't really do you for petty crimes you did years ago. Not really going to get done for buying a bit of weed in 2016. They are looking for big markets and crime rings of the present.

If you are a big vendor or admin. Just cash out and run.
/u/RelatableCyclotron e=mc^2
1 points
6 years ago
Thank you
/u/jt2047
1 points
6 years ago
Fantasic read. Very well written. Ive heard and read a giod bit up on chabging BTC to XMR vice versa and its something im considering strongly. Any good guides youd reccomend?
/u/[deleted]
1 points
6 years ago
GangGang! Great post.
/u/sainsmart
1 points
6 years ago
Great read.

I have to add that safety sensitive industrys like for example airlines operate on rules, modularity, checklists and memory items.

Because they studied the human brain and it's tendency to panic or beeing lazy or booth at the same time.

People who want to improve what ever risky they do should study this methodologys - and also lean principles.

Generally living a pimp life while running a op is also not the best of the best idea.
/u/HighLifeAsia
1 points
6 years ago
Interested in moving forward with monero but have to be more accessible worldwide
/u/exotic
1 points
6 years ago
Amazing post
/u/Acoyo
1 points
6 years ago
Thanks for this :)
/u/Onionshop
1 points
6 years ago
Great post, upvoted!

They were convinced that people must use a VPN. Now it turns out it worked against them.
/u/megbtc
1 points
6 years ago
BTC can be made fungible with CoinJoins. Wasabi Wallet is the best privacy bitcoin wallet and it does CoinJoins....
wasabiwallet.io
/u/[deleted]
1 points
6 years ago
Good post +1
/u/therealhypnotoad
1 points
6 years ago
Whats the source for all this information?

And about the claims on useless mixing, are you claiming every mixer is useless in their puporse? or that some mixers fail in their pupose and are easy to de-anonimise?


On another note, is there an anonymous way to convert XMR to BTC and viceversa? like Shapeshift prior to the account system?
/u/[deleted]
1 points
6 years ago
If someone were to exchange BTC into Monero would that stop the blockchain analysis from going any further?
/u/HugBunter whats the timeline on updating the private sites you delivered starting a year ago, so they accept XMR?

I know you've said yourself that XMR is the only safe coin to use in the Darknet.
And you promised XMR acceptance as a basic feature before you ever sold a site.

So come on. I'd hate to sit in prison thinking to myself "should have used Monero!"
/u/bowzer
1 points
6 years ago*
Thanks for the post detailing the complaint. I read through the complaint thoroughly as well and I am shocked at how stupid and naive the Wall Streets admins acted. They even published Wall Street links on twitter several years ago. Surely it was pretty easy to find the hidden services after that.

Regarding the VPNs debate, it makes sense to use at least two VPNs from separate companies, knowing one could be so easily comprised. I don't really believe that these VPN services revealed the Wall Street admins identity after the connections dropped or through metadata analysis. Rather, I think when the Dutch/German police monitored the hidden servers they went to said VPNs with an ultimatum to log on whoever was accessing the server since it was such a high profile case. Since these guys were logging in every day it was a simple code change to deanonymize them, performed by the VPN company. Quite possibly those VPNs offices were within reach of the authorities (with their hq in U.S., Western Europe) so they were obligated. That is why the companies are not named in the complaint - users would bolt from such a service that gave up their users identity so easy. Yes they were totally retarded not to use TOR to access their servers, but in any case it seemed too easy that the police got their IPs.
/u/malcomX
1 points
6 years ago
Lousee didn't maintain a VPN connection, it dropped, and Kronos used a VPN that did IP logging. There are some vpns that dont log vpn, according to their privacy policy.

Instead of two VPNs, one could use a vpn and tor or whonix gateway.
/u/pumpedupkids
1 points
6 years ago
I should add, that coin mixers are useless even if you buy your coins anonymously and have no ownership anyway because if you send your clearnet coins to your darknet wallet without Tor then your IP (if requested by bad actor like LE) can be provided by your ISP, along with the transaction you broadcasted. This can be averted by using a dark phone (make sure it's one with full device encryption and one you're ready and willing to throw away) with onion routing as a VPN and on a non-public WiFi that is not linked to your identity AND is not the same one you use for your other darknet activities.

This way you do not have to use Monero OR coin mixers, although monero conversion is still good-to-have as you never know to what lengths LE will go to track you down and if they go far enough they can get the ATM location to provide CCTV footage or testify that you did indeed buy Bitcoins there. So bulletproof method is:

Anonymous no-phone-number BTC ATM with cash > Dark encrypted device with a single use wallet receiving transaction through onion routing on a WiFi not linked to your identity (say a hotel that does not change their WiFi password that you know but tons of other people do as well) > monero conversion to monero wallet on a completely different dark device on a different internet connection also not linked to your identity > market
/u/chaos_unicorn
1 points
6 years ago
regarding opsec and why it‘s a bad idea to use vpn vs. tor which is a common question in all discussion threads around WSM and the apprehension of the admins:
there is an interesting talk from the last chaos communication congress. it‘s in german but there are english subtitles as well as translation. there are some real-world examples of opsecfails and general basic advice:

https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9716-du_kannst_alles_hacken_du_darfst_dich_nur_nicht_erwischen_lassen

also interesting information on the topic is an excellent talk by the gruqg:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9XaYdCdwiWU

most important take-away message is: nobody is going to jail for you. this disqualifies basically all VPN vendors out there. if LE shows up at their door step with a warrant they will either:
1. hand over all of your information to them AND / OR
2. turn on loggin for all future connections AND / OR
3. hand over encryption keys used in the past AND / OR
4. something else that hurts you.

you want to trust no one. that‘s why you use tor. it‘s designed with the premise that you don‘t have to trust.
/u/chaos_unicorn
1 points
6 years ago
there is also a quite extensive write-up regarding that topic by the whonix-community. it details pretty much every possible connection type with its shortcomings and advantages.
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Tunnels/Introduction
/u/chaos_unicorn
1 points
6 years ago
also, read up on the technical discussion in the official tor documentation: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorPlusVPN
/u/sync-racer
1 points
6 years ago
You should better be playing around on a virtual machine on a Tails, Kali whatever running windows to thin out their profiling algorythms to the worst.
On the windows, change the name of the machine a single time then provide it with all the stupid updates and afterwards you go NETSH set machine to the old name. Play around with any feature you know to set some rules for them.

PGP can also be tracked, they have tools to instantly come on your device, as soon as the mac adress is known and the base functions to connect it to the IP protocolling are provided. They can switch your connection over the mobile network around you even if youre on a wire. You will only know if you forever watch wireshark or some...

please all take care of yourselves and respect PartySquadNL and the poor team of girlpower. They most likely have the hottest pursuit behind them. PartySquadNL can protect, don´t know about girlpower. My connections are always being chased and infested by the stupid forensic. I try to show the russians and the chinese how to bust the NSA wasting important capabilites on a hidden, most likely harmless drug selling community instead of really dealing with terrorists.

They are guilty for every dead human in Sri Lanka at the time of these suicide idiots. I go on lawsuit in germany and will also try to defend Kalla as long as it is not the guilty initial scammer, sorry im not too deep into real knowledge about the market running community. For fucking good reason.

She ta kala ten dar. Frem for LSD shiz te kalatar sa.

Greetings to all from the Yakuza, no worry they have all RC Suppliers running forever. I talk to chinese government to handle this without wasting lives of people, that anyway take drugs. The danger is with all of us, although we provide good and fun use to the people.

Please do not ban me again.This is my 5th account. Im fighting also for the Climatic Movement with very dangerous secrets. Thats the reason for my IP spreading fake to you investigating.

Dont judge over my Win10, i can SET MACHINE SATOSHI eventhough the last name of this device was SUCHAGUY. lololol
/u/babohead
1 points
6 years ago
Me no understand
/u/hellvetic
1 points
6 years ago
How did they find out where the servers were located ?
/u/HeizenburgerEU
1 points
6 years ago
Nice post man thank you! Kinda serves that twat right for exit scamming people. What a bell
/u/HowToLiveMyLife
1 points
6 years ago
moot point, how does that even apply lol... actually its ok if your using XMR
/u/TrapObama
1 points
6 years ago
How can i go about making my BTC into Monero. Im verified on a site and have high limits for BITCOIN and it only sells bitcoin. WHat would be the best method to turn my BTC into monero.
/u/HansaBoat
1 points
6 years ago
You know they fucked up when none of them knew how to SSH over tor.
/u/highayr
1 points
6 years ago
Read the Pleading, US cops have Time Travel:)

Even though MED3LIN stated that he/she did not want to provide a physical
address, he/she eventually provided one to the Dutch National Police on [color=red] July 17, 2019, in which
he/she stated that his address was: Str: Joao Batista Pupo de Moraes, [
Street Number Redacted
by Affiant]
; Neighborhood: Parque Industrial; City: Campinas; State: Sao Paulo; Country:
Brazil; ZIP -
13031
-690 (
hereafter, the “Sao Paulo Address”)
. MED3LIN f
/u/kingbika
1 points
6 years ago
Only using XMR from now on whenever possible. Or ZEC z-addresses shielded to shielded works fine too. A tiny bit more difficult to use but well worth it.
/u/ITSMANDY
1 points
6 years ago
Its the secure crypto with the sexy name..that's right MONERO.
/u/tetris
1 points
6 years ago
Should have used an OpenWRT hotspot with iptables rules to only allow outbound traffic to the VPN server...
/u/AZERTY
1 points
6 years ago
>While the mobile broadband account was registered with fictitious information, forensic capabilities allowed the connection to be traced to his physical location (his home and place of work).

How is that possible? I thought 3/4g was a pretty wide area, not enough granularity to give a specific house/building?
/u/dwtrust
2 points
6 years ago
Phone companies keep records of all the pings that a phone puts out. Not sure how long records are kept, but I know someone who investigates murders in the UK and they pay 300 pounds to the phone company for the location records of a specific phone for a certain time and date range.
Using triagulation they can pinpoint you to a room in an apartment on a specific floor, and that was 10 years ago, so god knows what they can do now.
They didn't need the dongle location as evidence, but it adds up when presented in court.
/u/rodriguez11
1 points
6 years ago
He used usb dongle/stick. They used triangulation and probably some other techiques and locate him...
Everything is easy from moment when they get his real IP.
/u/hamill
1 points
6 years ago
Carriers know accurate location of all radios on network. Then they send out a tech team with mobile tools that can locate to the device.
/u/Cashcropper
1 points
6 years ago
Wow now that's a great post best post I've read in a long time.
Great job!
That's some great info
Thanks for your work on this it's much appreciated!
/u/MrBenzo
1 points
6 years ago
Amazing post, not relaying on a vpn host, would be different if rent own server to use as a vpn on top of a payed vpn service? looking forward to more on this and some OffSec info is always great thanks! :)
/u/Drax
1 points
6 years ago
I can't believe how many OpSec errors these guys made.

Keep safe everyone
/u/aisle-gullet
1 points
6 years ago
One thing I don't understand is how LE linked the transactions to the same wallet. The blockchain itself doesn't expose wallets, only addresses. A wallet is simply a deterministic way to generate new addresses to be used for transactions. But unless you're already in possession of the private key, there's no way to identify separate addresses or transactions as belonging to the same wallet.
/u/hamill
1 points
6 years ago
What is 2 vendors from USA that were caught?
/u/ComradeSciFi2
1 points
6 years ago
Im going to echo others here. I want a new DN Bible. I was about to work on becoming a vendor when all this shit hit the fan. I def need a brush up on opsec. I know its better to be running tails, and it sounds like its even better to somehow install a server somewhere in a public wifi area, but idk how youd even do that, and remote into it. And I REALLY want more vendors asking for monero. And more exchanges enabling you to purchase it.

If there is a good, modern, guide for opsec, Id love to see it.
/u/malcomX
1 points
6 years ago
You suggest something greater than VPNs? Lousee was connecting directly to the database backbone and infrastructure without a vpn, as his vpn connection dropped, and without tor, as it was the backend. According to the criminal complaint, it looks like Kalla / Kronos was using a VPN that logged IPs. There are VPNs that do not log IP data. You must read their privacy policy to be aware of what they log.

As for mixing, people can exchange bitcoin to monero. Once the money is as monero, it cannot be traced. However, as stated in the criminal complaint, these three defendants were moving over 10 million dollars around, so it is easier to trace such large amounts. However, the criminal complaint does tell not to use the same pgp as previously used anywhere.
/u/fantasticdave666
1 points
6 years ago
SO many fuck-ups on the part of the Wall Street Admins. It's a real shame how so many market admins end up being clueless amateurs when it comes to their net sec.

They used a VPN to connect to their back end infra over the clear net. Why they thought this was a good idea is beyond me. They should have just had their back end infra accessible as a hidden service only. They also should have been using Tails or Whonix to force all of their traffic through Tor. As market admins they were being very careless by using a VPN service as their sole precaution.

The biggest irony is that many of their users practiced better op sec than them, by using Tails and Monero for their darknet activities. The darknet community needs a wake up call about opsec. ALWAYS use the best tools available. It's better to take 20 minutes to learn best practices than it is to end up in a jail cell!
/u/MandyCandy
0 points
6 years ago
Will not upvote this because of your recommendation to not use VPNs. VPNs are ONE important link to use in one's security. Just because one person used a shitty VPN in a wrong manner as his ONLY link is no reason to not use one. There are real good VPNs out there which use real good open source software and encryption which do not leak and have legit kill switches that work built in. This is like you buying a car that breaks down the next day and saying you should never ever rely on cars for transportation.
/u/THClear1
1 points
6 years ago
agreed 100%. Tor over an encrypted VNP is probably not sufficient for a FISA
/u/cryptonius Cryptonia Staff
1 points
6 years ago
I think you both misread. The op wrote "Please do not rely on VPN's to protect your identity." If you use a VPN with tor you're not really relying on it to protect your identity.
/u/dwtrust
1 points
6 years ago
The one and only advantage to using a VPN with TOR is that all your ISP sees is that you are using a VPN and not TOR.
But the VPN provider will know you are using TOR so you are just moving that knowledge to somewhere else.
VPN's are meant to stop outside people seeing your traffic, they do not anonymise you at all.
If you want true anonymity, use tails and connect it to a private obsfucating TOR proxy on a secure server.
/u/Ni99erNc00n
0 points
6 years ago
A song for these times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ4cZTQG5Cc

FUCK THE WAR ON DRUGS AND THE PENCILNECKED NAZI PIG CUNTS PERPETRATING IT.
/u/willybilly
0 points
6 years ago
come on vendors let's file a civil suit to get our stolen money back from the gov, who's with me?! /s