Thoughts about markets : DarkNetMarkets | Torhoo darknet markets

In a utopia, there would be no need for fraud. I'm morally opposed to it as well, but it's a pretty deeply ingrained part of the dnm culture. I try not to judge the fraudsters, everyone's gotta eat, and I'm no angel myself.

As far as markets allowing fraud well, I don't really have a problem with it. Although if you choose to buy something from a fraudster and you get scammed that's on you. Like seriously what did you expect?

Well most popular methods are targeting giants but not the individuals. Just the point financial institutes have privileges to act crimes LEGALLY in real world because they are rich and got licenses to do it.

I think fraud comes as a "benefit" of the human nature, as well as the question of ethics. If there's a market, the hunters will scent their prey.

The target audience for fraud listings aren't a bunch of Robin Hoods doing good to the disadvantaged I guess, but rather fit the average type of human egos who tend to give in to their own desires, whatever these may be.

The power belongs to those sitting on what they call their cash, traditionally generated by people doing the dirty work far from their bosses offices. So drilling little holes in their capitalist bubbles seems more than appropriate. As long as no one gets hurt, well done. Personally, I'd like to see these bastards surviving on the other end of the food chain just for a week or so. Might change their minds big time. Even if they'd donate all their money to charity, they wouldn't know what it's like to suffer from hunger.

But thinking in categories of ethics here, also raises questions about my part in the game as a drug buyer. What about harm being done to the people - often forcedly - working in drug production? What about harm which drug production and consumption does to the environment? Isn't fraud involved in all that? Is it really my personal freedom to consume whatever drug I want? And finally, what a luxury is it to discuss these questions, being part of the tiny community that can afford to buy drugs or whatever online?

If I buy, I accept, that one way or the other, harm is included. So if it's about avoiding harm, then to buy, or not to buy, seems to be the question.

In my imagination of an Utopia, there's no type of harm at all. And that's why there even don't exist people in my imagination of Utopia.

Think I need a hit now. Don't worry, it's just an eco-brew beer.

Cheers!

/u/YosemiteGhostWrite

Your farts must smell absolutely delightful, don't you think so too? Who died and made you King of the ethics committee!?

All jokes aside, I'd really like to foster a discussion on this topic with you as you really seem to have a lot of misconceptions on what fraud actually is from what I think I understand is your very limited knowledge of the subject. Also what I notice is a really big problem with your thought process on this specific topic is that you seem to completely and blatantly disregard any and all systems put in place by banks and insurance companies meant to protect the Average Joe from those "pesky, scary, nasty fraudsters".

You seem to want to pretend like fraud is the equivalent of reaching into someone's back pocket and swiping their wallet or running up to someone on the street and yanking the chain off their neck when it REALLY ISN'T. Your entire comment on how that may have been someone's last food money literally makes so little sense that I feel bad for calling you out on how stupid it sounds from a completely logical perspective. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT FUCKING MIND HAS LITERALLY NO MONEY OUTSIDE OF THAT WHICH IS ON THEIR CREDIT ACCOUNT?! Further to the point, we talk big talk about how online banking is convenient, fast, good, widespread, etc.. Yet still the majority of people will NOT trust their savings with banks. There's a reason that old maxim "Cash is king." exists and it's not just for the anonymity. Your entire point on why you feel that Markets should no longer offer a space for the fraud community is based on idealistic notions of your subjective utopia which you feel you have the right to push on other people and seek validation for those ideas. Or in layman's terms - Why the anti-fraud circle jerk?

Without going too deep into how/why both debit and credit cards are completely insured in some cases, and insured over a $ limit depending on when the unauthorized charges were reported in other cases I want to know where the fuck you get off talking morals and ethics on Markets whose primary goal literally is [PROFIT. Let's not pretend it's not, please. Spare me the idealistic bullshit.

Everything you ever wanted to know, but never bothered for more than 3 seconds of your life to actually look up before you decided to start talking about it is literally a google search away. No one is stealing old lady purses here, seriously, stop acting like it.

How do you expect to reconcile the business end with the moral end?

Sure, lets ban the sales of all opioids then as well because there's no telling when some nasty drug vendor is going to cut it with fent or just sell fent as something else or just plain sell fent. And we don't like fent these days do we? It's the main buzzword that gets everyone's asses all tingly.

Is it unethical that Markets allow stuff to be marketed as "China White" (whatever the fuck that means), when at the end of the day you, I, and everyone knows it's just fucking fentanyl? And suddenly you're magically fine with that, but it's the guys trying to keep the ebb and flow of money going 'round and 'round you have a problem with?

Hakuna fucking Matata, baby! It's the circle of life, or money in this case. Somewhere it goes out, somewhere it comes in, and where it previously came out so too shall it go in there again.

Don't take this as a personal attack, I don't know you nor do I have anything personal against you. I just feel that you're painting an unfair picture of other people's trade based on your emotions and misconceptions. Whether the misconceptions are due to you lacking the motivation to learn more about something that you claim so deeply moves you and disturbs your idea of a small utopia within the magical gates of TOR or due to the fact that you simply decided "The internet is for porn, the other internet is for drugs." I can't say, but either way it feels really fucking unfair to see the public opinion that's forming here.

All the best, and fuck all 'yall too.
-G

While I can certainly see where you are coming from I think fraud is part of this subculture. You can compare it to graffiti. While most people like the colorful big pieces on the walls (drugs on markets) a lot of them don't like "dirty" tags (fraud related listings) everywhere and while you can love it or hate it, it is part of the culture.

Personally I am against fraud in a way that it hurts the individual but I don't really have any issues if someone exploits amazon refund policy or engages in credit card fraud, some stuff that in the end only hurts big companies, banks and other criminal financial institutions. You could compare some fraud to modern bank robbery actually. I don't think every kind of fraud is unethical.

In an utopia there would be no need for fraud I guess, nor would there be any need for banks or megacorps because there wouldn't be any money in the first place. In an utopia there would be no need for laws either.

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I agree with you, I can't say, that those markets which allow frauds, would exit-scam, but I agree, frauds shouldn't be allowed on drug markets.

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Banks cheat people with hidden charges and high interest. Always playing around with paperworks, misleading content aka legal shark loan. From my point of view fraudsters are doing it right, at least they(bank) will do something to prevent fraudulent activities. Forcing payment gateway companies to properly secure their payment processor like 3D verification. And also the compliances like PCIDSS and etc. No pain no gain

fraud would just be legal and decriminalized in a utopia. rewards would simply be issued to people who discover and expose flaws in the system. our society as it stands is adverse to correcting issues and punishes those who try to, which arguably births the necessity of something like fraud in the first place lol. its really just the law of thermodynamics.

for every person trying to fraud their way to a measly 10k, there was someone out there who made 10 or 100x that via exploitation. the system itself inspires the crime and creates the conditions that necessitate it. the only difference is that some players in society are powerful enough to engage in fraud under color of law. until the big boys are held accountable, i cant really fault the little guy looking out for his livelihood.

kantian ethics is cool but dont get confused and conflate it with the laws of a corrupt system. according to kant you would put equal imperative on everyone not to steal. so then if wealth was gained unfairly and taken back, in a crude way that would be more consistent and corrective towards that philosophy.

assigning an immoral value to the act of theft is easy, but to define something as theft fairly, you would have to take full account of all the hands the material in question has ever been through. 2 wrongs might not make a right, but 2 wrongs dont often make 3 wrongs. basically, a sense of awareness and proportion is required to make a fair judgement.